Oil Pan / Sump Pictures

[Kevin Box]

Does any one have any good pictures of either a Milodon Road Race Oil Pan for 351W or a Canton Road Race Pan.

I am building a pan (Kiwis & Ausiies read Sump) for 351W and have looked at Milodon 302 road race sump as a place to start but the 351w pickup is considerably deaper so it is not a direct copy possiblity.


Thanks in advance


KevinB:idea:

 

[Mike Drew]

Are you building an oil pan for a Mustang or something?

As far as I know, only Aviaid and Armando make proper GT40 oil pans. They are very different in size/shape/character from your typical Mustang pan.

Miloden makes a Pantera pan (a copy of the Aviaid Pantera design, which is different from the GT40) but not a GT40 pan. Canton doesn't make one either.

I've got an Armando GT40 pan and can shoot photos for you if you like?

 

[Kevin Box]

Mike
Oil pan is for my GT40 as initial setup - long term dry sump ??
As far as I can tell there is enough room in the chassis for a Milodon type pan and I have a borrowed Milodon 302 Road race pan that I planned to copy.
However, having folded up most of the bits, I found that the 351W oil pump and pickup is lower are different enough that it is not a stright forward copy.

Pictures of your pan would be invaluable as an aid.

I have the box welded on a modified stock pan and need to sort the baffles and gates now.

thanks

KevinB

:stunned:

 

Go here Kevin. The one I bought is item 155-55361.

Cheers,

Brian.

 

[Bill Musarra]

You might want to look also at the Kevko pan. That is what I have on my 351 W. They supply you with an altered pickup and there is a crank scrubber and trap doors are utilized to hold the oil around the pickup.

You will notice on the last pic that there is a wedge taken out of the mounting surface of the pan. This is so that if you decide to stroke the motor, the throws will not hit the pan. With mine it caused a minor leak that we had to add silicon to it. No problem since. Sorry I don't have one of the pickup.The bottom of the pan sits even with the undercarriage of the car.

Bill

 

Whoops - forgot the link...

Wet Sump Road Race Oil Pans (SBF 289/302 & 351W) at Test Page One

Item 155-55361

 

[Anders]

Kevko racing oil pan for ClevelanAndy

 

[Julian]

Forget copying a Milodon 302W road/race pan unless you like oil surge and dead motors. Been there, done that.
Just buy a Canton road/race pan to suit. Have done two events late last year with it installed and video recording of my oil pressure gauge shows it to be rock solid. And this is cornering up to 1.2 - 1.3 G, which is about what you can reasonably get out of R comp tyres.

 

[SteveB]

I used an Amando sump/oilpan.

Steve

 

[Julian West]

Gents,

I don't want to start a witch-hunt but will share my experiences.

Using an Armandos GT40 sump is probably fine if you are sticking to road use.

BUT I've suffered two big end bearing failures within 1500 miles whilst on track with an Armandos sump. I suspect oil surge was the cause.

I've now fitted a Canton 15-630 with a mesh-type windage tray.

Personally I am not content to rely on a gauge to detect oil surge. I don't believe a momentary drop of oil pressure would even register on a gauge due to the time it takes for the needle to move.

I've plumbed a 15 psi oil pressure switch into the block, wired to a BIG red light on the dash in the belief that I will be able to visually detect even the most momentary drop in pressure when the light will 'flicker'. Having rebuit the engine twice I was tempted to wire it to the horn instead!

I have a dual oil pressure/temperature gauge & my oil is cooled with a laminova oil/water heat exchanger plumbed thru an oil thermostat sandwich plate.

Oil control seems to be a tricky business (when you start cornering & braking hard) & there are whole chapters of engine building books dedicated to oil control.

As I say, IMO I'm sure the Armandos GT40 sump is fine for road use but think carefully before you go on track with one.

Regards to all,

Julian West

 

[Kevin Box]

Gents

Thanks for your comments so far.
I sense from all the comments on the subject so far that the Canton Baffle / Oil control system is the one I should be emulating in my build.
Does anyone have any pictures of the Canton 351W pan that are good enough for me to look at and copy for my home built pan.

regards and thanks


Kevin B

 

[Julian West]

Maybe try the Summit racing website, find the sump you need & then try the '360 view' option???

Not sure it'll be enough info for you to build your own but might be a start.

Regards

 

[Kevin Box]

:stunned:

Found these on the internet
They will give me enough to build from

I have fininshed the box so only have to make the diamond gate setup now.
I will probabaly use hinges fabricated from sheet and Brake tube.


Photos when I have it fininshed

regards KB

 

[Cliff Beer]

Ditto the reco on the Kevko pan. The baffling and louvered plate seems to do a heck of a job of keeping the pickup in the oil during hard cornering. Well built, never leaked a drop, my Kevko pan also has the notch for a potential stroker kit.

 

[Mike Huddart]

Ditto the reco on the Kevko pan. The baffling and louvered plate seems to do a heck of a job of keeping the pickup in the oil during hard cornering. Well built, never leaked a drop, my Kevko pan also has the notch for a potential stroker kit.

Cliff, Bill,
sorry to spoil your theories about stroker cranks etc but that notch in the oil pan or wedge as you call it is actually there to clear # 4 main cap on four bolt blocks. If you look at the photos of Randy's Boss block from a previous post you will see what I mean.

Julian,
if you have been having trouble burning rod bearings it might be worth checking the clearance between the bottom of the pan and the pickup. The popular perception is you run with about 3/8 clearance which is fine with "normal" engines like a Chevy but Fords need a lot more flow to keep the bearings from overheating so we set the clearance to something like 5/8 to 3/4, it makes a heck of a differance to oil temperatures. If you put the Canton pan and pick up together straight out of the box that's just what you get, it looks too much but seems to work fine.
Also, can't agree about the oil guage and surge, when we used to run Group 1 Camaros that had to use a stock Z/28 oil pan, the guage wizzed up and down quicker than the rev counter ! Never seemed to make much differance.
Mike

 

[Cliff Beer]

Cliff, Bill,
sorry to spoil your theories about stroker cranks etc but that notch in the oil pan or wedge as you call it is actually there to clear # 4 main cap on four bolt blocks. If you look at the photos of Randy's Boss block from a previous post you will see what I mean.

Julian,
if you have been having trouble burning rod bearings it might be worth checking the clearance between the bottom of the pan and the pickup. The popular perception is you run with about 3/8 clearance which is fine with "normal" engines like a Chevy but Fords need a lot more flow to keep the bearings from overheating so we set the clearance to something like 5/8 to 3/4, it makes a heck of a differance to oil temperatures. If you put the Canton pan and pick up together straight out of the box that's just what you get, it looks too much but seems to work fine.
Also, can't agree about the oil guage and surge, when we used to run Group 1 Camaros that had to use a stock Z/28 oil pan, the guage wizzed up and down quicker than the rev counter ! Never seemed to make much differance.
Mike

Thanks Mike for clearing that up. I guess I'll be looking at it a little more closely then when it comes times to put in a stroker kit!

Cheers.

 

[Kevin Box]

I Guess there is now two decisions to make

1 How far the pick up should be off the floor of the pan
2 Whether I go for a box construction as per the Milodon or Diamond as per the Canton


KB

 

[Kevin Box]

WHAT!!! No Comments ????

:stunned:

 

[Julian West]

Julian,
if you have been having trouble burning rod bearings it might be worth checking the clearance between the bottom of the pan and the pickup. The popular perception is you run with about 3/8 clearance which is fine with "normal" engines like a Chevy but Fords need a lot more flow to keep the bearings from overheating so we set the clearance to something like 5/8 to 3/4, it makes a heck of a differance to oil temperatures. If you put the Canton pan and pick up together straight out of the box that's just what you get, it looks too much but seems to work fine.
Also, can't agree about the oil guage and surge, when we used to run Group 1 Camaros that had to use a stock Z/28 oil pan, the guage wizzed up and down quicker than the rev counter ! Never seemed to make much differance.
Mike

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your input, I have installed the Canton sump & pickup in the stock configuration so I guess the clearance should be OK.... I remember checking the measurement but can't for the life of me remember what it was!

When I dismantled the engine after the second big end failure, the oil looked like new. this made me think perhaps my oil was being over cooled??

Regards,

Julian

 

[Chris]

Bump on this ancient thread haha.
What sumps are people using on their 40’s?

Anything different out on the market that people prefer?

Build is going to be an SGT.