Porsche Tranny Applications?

Does anyone know what the 996 box and the 993 box come in exactly? I see stuff like 911 c2 rs. I assume the c2 is just carrera 2 wheel drive but what is rs? Other than getting a serial number what 911 has what? Is the 996 box another g50 series? And what year does the 6 spd show up and are they all 6spd or just certain models?Thanks.
And on a side note, i know there was talk about the 996 box being expensive to rebuild and i was talking to someone at Powerhaus and he said they ar "non-serviceable" dont know exactly what that is supposed to mean and i have already asked him a ton of questions without buying anything yet and although he was very curteous and helpfull, his answers were getting shorter and shorter with each question, didnt want to bother him anymore.

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Eric,
All I can tell you is that my friends 1994 C2 has a 6 spd. As for other boxes, if it is a Getrag unit, you can always write to them, I've always found them helpfull/

Brett

 

[Chuck]

C2 and C4 denote 2wd versus 4wd. The RS was a serious weekend racer spec car and almost always includes an auxilary trans cooler, limited slip and aggressive gear ratios. The euro 911 RS and 993 RS transaxle are highly sought after. The regular C2 and C4 rarely had a cooler but limited slip is about 50/50. My experience is the later of the 993's typically had limited slip as the customers typically added a hefty number of options to their cars.

911 - 85 to 89 5 speed, mounted towards front with cross-bracket (also called G50 gearbox). I'd guess the easiest to fit on a non-porsche due to the mounting.
911 - 90 to 92 5 speed, mounted towards front with a single hanger built into the transaxle (different G50)
911 - 93 to 94 6 speed, generally same as below (still G50 designation)
993 - last of the aircooled 911's, MY 1995 to 1998 in US, all 6 speeds
996 - 1999 on all 6 speeds, different hanging style again

Gears for the G50 are about $900 per set. I've heard of guys with extensive patience converting C4 gearboxes to 2wd and I've seen a few where the single hanger case was retrofitted to the cross-bracket style. Most people look for the gearbox they want rather than build them to their spec (unless unlimited $$). This has made the porsche tranny guys quick to determine if you fall in the latter high $$ category, and if not move on. I'd guess the "not servicable" comment reflects the fact that it's often cheaper to buy used than repair or convert these boxes.

Chuck

 

[Bill Musarra]

My Porsche shop forman told me that the 996 is a good trans, but you had to rebuild at about 40K miles and wasn't cheap. He wants me to find a Boxster S. Says don't have to flip it as it is a mid engine setup (not cheap either). I'm planning to rebuild my 930 posi unit as it will be cheaper than the prices I have seen lately.
Bill

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Bill,
I dug this up from my mail from a gentleman called Gunnar Herre, who works for Getrag:
----------------------------------
the only car which - per my knowledge - actually uses such a transaxle concept is the Porsche Boxster.Thus please be so kind and check with your local Porsche dealer/s about the availability, price, leadtime, etc. on such a GETRAG made transaxle.
The torque which this box should handle is around 320 Nm.

Brett

 

[andys]

The Getrag site claims 310Nm for the type 256, which to us is 228lb-ft. I've inquired with Kennedy Eng'g. here in the US, and they make no adapters for this transaxle. The senior Mr. Kennedy told me "it's all wrong" (for a V8) as the starter is in an odd place (he sounded as if he didn't think it was worth the effort). Perhaps someone else may take a shot at an adapter? The 1st gear ratio (net 13.14:1)is better (taller) than that of the Audi 016 3U and AZZ (net 14.00:1). From what I've seen, used (salvage) Boxster 'S' 6 speed's sell for around $2500- $3500 USD.

Andy

 

[Chuck]

The Boxster S tranny unfortunately has a natural market - the Boxster conversion of installing a 996 motor in a early non S boxster (FUN TO DRIVE). There are plenty of totalled 996's but few totalled Boxster S's (volume sold and driver capability likely play a large factor). Therefore demand.

That 930 gearbox is brutally tough and bearings, ring&pinions and spare gears (used even) are readily available. It was always the desired gearbox for V8 911 and 914 conversions. I imagine it still is.

 

Thanks for the info, it is exactly what i was looking for but it has raised some more questions, what is "aggresive" gearing. I ask cause i have found 1 of each with broken bellhousings and as i will cast my own bellhousing end to mate to the ford then weld it on, this isnt a concern. I cant seem to get ahold of the owner of the rs one yet so no idea as to price. And finally, is the stock limited slip any good? What style is it? I was considering an ATB style but is it worth looking for the Porsche lsd instead? thanks alot for all the info.

 

[Chuck]

Gear selection is a big debate which plenty of people on this board and every Porsche board debate until the cows come home. Being limited in funds, I've done the following with a few 911's. Get the car together with the right power plant and drive it. After I get a feel for torque/hp placement for speed/timing I can determine whether I need to change a gear set (or two) or just ring and pinion. Both times I have ended up with a new top gear and more aggressive ring and pinion. The r&p alllows me better selection at track/autocross and the replacement 5th allows me to keep decent highway rpm's. On a 930 the boxes were built for a motor with torque and the hot setup for awhile has been to put in the more aggressive r&p from the multiple sources who offer. Given that your car will have more raw punch than a 930, I'd be tempted to run stock at first and then change if you feel its warranted.

As for the lsd, tons of quaiffe's, guard's etc. in club cars. There are purists running the factory setup but there are fewer every day. I'd consider a call to Patrick Motorsports, Renegade Hybrids or Rod Simpson Hybrids for 930 r&p durability/parts/recc. These guys have seen the results of v8 applications more than most.

You mention broken bellhousings. Are these on 930's? Never seen that. Possibly collisison cars? Don't forget Kennedy when it comes to conversion items as they make most swap kits available (excepting the ones noted in the post above).

 

Yes they are accident cars. I dont like that 1st gear at all and chance are with the accident breaking the bellhousing, the input shaft is going to be bent so i will need a new one but 1st is part of that shaft so i need a new shaft no matter what. I want to cast my own bellhousing ends more just to do it than anything else although if I do use a 6spd I think not having a thick adapter plate between the motor and tranny will help with the extra length. As for the rear mount, i would machine off that one hanging off the back and fabricate something else. So with all that, it would be cheaper to buy a broken box and butcher it as oposed to buying a good one {that someone else might have a need for} and experimenting with that. I have to admit that these 996 boxes are tempting as they seem to be common and cheap and if i remember right that is the same box they use in the Mosler MT900-- 500+ hp chevy small block in a corvette with a rear engine. I might have already bought one if it wasnt for all the negative talk about it. Does this 930 r&p set fit the 993 ?
And finally you lost me with all the 930 talk. Is that the 4 spd box are just another name for 911 turbo.

 

[Chuck]

sorry 911 turbo = 930.

I thought the mosler used the 993 6 speeds (what that RS gearbox might be the hp version of is the right year). I'll try and look at some photo's I took at daytona and see if there is enough detail. Have you priced 930 input shafts? These were outrageous last I saw.

 

Here is a small blurb I took from some other website, it was in French so the translation is a littleweird. " Built around a chassis tubulaire dressed of a body in carbon the Mosler receives, for the race, the V8 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 in place and places of the V8 Corvette LS1 that equips the models "Street legal". The pad Z06 benefits from an electronic signed management Motec and of a reserved preparation to the corporation TEC (Total Engine Concept) an affiliate of Mosler. Given for more than 450 horses this motor is mated with a can manuelle to 6 reports coming from the Porsche 996."
It's $1500 for a used shaft with my choice of first gear, it is the same price if i have a good shaft and want a different 1st gear, (from powerhaus II). Any idea on the length of a 996 compared to the 993. This may be a stupid question but I assume I need to flip the 996, it is still engine at the back-tranny at the front right? This tranny is so tempting as you usually see them on ebay for the same price as a g50 but nobody bids on them.

 

[Chuck]

The Mosler website mentions/discusses/shows many gearboxes. They mention Hewland (for racing), clearly show Porsche gearboxes and sell parts plus show pictures of Quaiffe's.

One of the pictures looks like a 993 or 996 gearbox running inverted (upside down and backwards).

 

[Chuck]

Here is another with a couple of Porsche transaxles apart on the workbench in the background.

 

[Chuck]

And the last, here is what is stated to be a recent chassis with what I recognize as one of the new Quaiffe 6-speed gearboxes (they also sell parts for these gearboxes on the Mosler website).

As for gearbox length, I recall them being within an inch or two of each other (993 vs 996). Reading from the Mosler website, their original bad*ss midengine V8 cars used 4-speed Porsche gearboxes (those would have to be 911 turbo/930).

Chuck

 

[Gary Gibbs]

My gear chart:
http://www.2gmotorsports.com/trans_gears.PDF

addresses the G64 (six speed version of the G50) and the G60 (?). I was looking into the G64 for a while and it can be made about 1.5" longer then the G50 with a hacked off rear cover.

 

Ok, i ended up with a 993 rs tranny. (assuming it shows up). I finally found out what "aggressive" gear ratios are and don't think i like them. I am right back to the 016 final drive (almost) just i have an extra gear to go through to get there. So, is there anyone that knows of a place to find something like a 3.08 ring and pinion set or do i need to try and find someone that has a normal 993 and try and convince them to swap gears. These are the ratios i found..... normal 993--3.818 2.047 1.407 1.110 .921 .775 rs 993--3.818 2.150 1.560 1.242 1.027 .820 I dont think i will be spending any length of time in any gear, i will be shifting always!!!
Secondly, I seem to remember somthing here about converting these to a side shift but cant seem to find it with the search, anyone remember, if I am mistaken, i guess i'll have to be the one to try.
ps. I only paid $800 so I would have chose this tranny anyways as if my experiments fail, i wont have lost so much.

 

[Chuck]

Eric,

When you get that tranny for $800 and it's in decent shape you are in great $ standing. If it has the lsd and external cooler setup like some 993rs' you can sell each for >$800. As for the gear ratio swap, try any of the gear guys listed in Excellence or Pano. They would love to have factory RS gear sets and would swap or I bet you can swap the RS tranny for a 993 box with LSD of your choice (Quaiffe/Guard/etc) for even money. I've bought from Guard and have buddies who have had him do work for them and they seak highly of $800! $800! Did I mention that the price is a raging bargain. Congrats,

Chuck

 

Ok, I finally got my transmission today after many screw ups by the shipping company (Saia) and I beleive it is not an rs tranny as I was told (weird, someone lied and I am happy about it). The serial number is a g5020 2 and if i remember right all the rs boxes are either a 31 32 or 33. It does however have the lsd. It has no provisions for a speed sensor so I assume that was off of abs sensors.
I have spent an hour searching the forum for a post I remember reading from someone who flipped the G50 and he gave pretty good details about drilling some oil return holes and the like, does anyone have that info? I looked at everything and cant find it. BTW. I tried searching for flipping g50, inverted g50, and variants of this and cant get a match, if I search just g50, I am reading for ever and I see these words pop up that wouldnt match, does the search have to match the words in order or something??

 

[Bill Bayard]

Eric,

My G50 runs inverted. The only thing that I have done to it, is swap the drain plug for the vent plug. Some guys(Rick Merz, et al) have added a pressurized oil cooling system, but that's not necessary for street driving.
My G50 is much older than yours(1987), so you may want to research the oil passage holes further, as your newer gearbox may require them.

Bill