Possible Suspension Arm Failure, Racing - Tornado GT40

[(C)arlos]

Guys,
a some of you might know I sold my Tornado this year (pics below) to a guy here around the corner who is a professional race-driver. He owns around 12-14 vintage cars, many of them are raced by him, including 24h race on Nuerburgring. Including Porsche 911, Jaguar MKII convertible, Triumph, Mercedes, Renault Alpine 110 ( both FIA approved) and many more....
He knows exactly what he is doing, so please no questions about this.

I did build a stronger engine for him with around 400HP and after the break in period he drove the car several times around the GP track on Nuerburgring ( the track F1 cars race) and the car was behaving O.K. ( saying O.K. not good ). Yesterday he was about to drive the old circuit on the ring ....and right at the carrousel (kind of a steep turn, a bit bumpy) ....see what happened ...the right control arm gave up under load ....any other part I would say nothing, but this is more then just "ok....this sucks", this is unreasonably dangerous, could kill you and others, or best case just cost you a lot of money ...However ...it is far away from being a professional design, not even over engineered for safety.

The part is a complete faulty design and wrong choice of material. Just wrong and weak ...

 

[Dave P]

Re: This happens to a Tornado if you really race it

So you are posting about a car you no longer own and that someone else was driving and I am sure you were there to back up your statements. Wait a minute on a track That drivers voted not to race on at one point

 

[(C)arlos]

Re: This happens to a Tornado if you really race it

Dave, not owing anymore but till doing maintenance and support for it...I think you should reconsider your second statement..The circuit is still in use and the cars are faster then ever racing there ....but I am sure you raced it many times ( like I did ) to backup your statement

 

[Doug S.]

Re: This happens to a Tornado if you really race it

Just curious....does Tornado offer an upgrade to the factory control arm?

I'm curious b/c the Tornado interests me, being the most complete kit out there, and although I have no interest in serious racing, I would like for it to be safe for spirited driving.

Cheers!

Doug

 

[(C)arlos]

Re: This happens to a Tornado if you really race it

Just to avoid a flame wave here.....Don't crucify me for posting this, this is what the forum is for ....you have a problem or see one, you post it ...you think something is worth to let other people know ....you post it ..period...
If you don't like such posts "just don't read them"

See the facts (pics) and comment on them ...Can you proof me wrong here, I am glad to say "take my excuses" ...

 

[(C)arlos]

Re: This happens to a Tornado if you really race it

Doug,

I have driven the car around 5000-6000km in one year and each has been a lot of fun....The kit is fine for normal street usage and even for street racing...no doubts, get the kit build it stay on the street and you will have a lot of fun....
Would I buy it again ? perhaps if I would opt for a second replica with a space frame..
Cheers
(C)arlos

Just curious....does Tornado offer an upgrade to the factory control arm?

I'm curious b/c the Tornado interests me, being the most complete kit out there, and although I have no interest in serious racing, I would like for it to be safe for spirited driving.

Cheers!

Doug

 

[Frank Catt]

Re: This happens to a Tornado if you really race it

This is not a new or unknown occurrence, read all previous articles on these failures.

 

[(C)arlos]

Re: This happens to a Tornado if you really race it

Tx Frank, and yes I agree, I have been told today on the phone about this. I was not aware about this, and this is exactly the reason why I am posting this here.....


Ohhh and the question is.....If this is a known problem, Why doesn't it get fixed ?

 

[Andy Green]

Re: This happens to a Tornado if you really race it

Hi Carlos,
As Frank stated this is a known issue on Tornado’s and upgraded wishbones are now supposed be supplied as part of the kit. However when these new parts were introduced has never been made public, perhaps Andy Sheldon would like to clarify this. What year was your kit supplied, as obviously not by this date or the updated design is still marginal
Chris Hale had a similar problem (see link below) and I plan to change mine (post IVA) as a matter of precaution.
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-tec...ls/35173-new-front-suspension.html#post346089
Regards,
Andy

 

Re: This happens to a Tornado if you really race it

I have often been told of this fault and I know that some other people,, no names.
upgrade these parts accordingly.
In fact I have seen batches of these upgraded parts being made, so it's not the odd one here or there.
No one likes to say someone elses work is not up to scratch but when it's common knowledge with so many, it should be addressed. I personally think tougher parts should be standard. This is not F1.
I suppose when someone dies it might get resolved.
But yes let Tornado say there bit !
If it were a main manufacturer it would have been a recall, perhaps Tornado will replace anyone who has ever bought a car with upgraded parts F.O.C.
MY OPINIONS ONLY

 

[(C)arlos]

Re: This happens to a Tornado if you really race it

Hi Andy,

my kit is from 2007 ...

As said, I was not aware about this...
However, if this part has received an upgrade a security warning should be made public.
Making mistakes is quite normal, but not taking responsibility and give a warning to everybody is bad business behaviour. A forum is a great place for this.

It is absolutely wrong to think this is bad press and you might loose a customer. Quite the contrary, I would have more trust in a company that continuously monitors their products, enhances quality and give me a heads up if something goes seriously wrong. And this is serious!
Some of our cars easily go over 250km/h, do you want to be inside it when the front wheel flies by your side window or the wheel blocks the steering and the truck from the opposing traffic makes a bad combination of steel and meat ? You see, neither me...

Hi Carlos,
As Frank stated this is a known issue on Tornado’s and upgraded wishbones are now supposed be supplied as part of the kit. However when these new parts were introduced has never been made public, perhaps Andy Sheldon would like to clarify this. What year was your kit supplied, as obviously not by this date or the updated design is still marginal
Chris Hale had a similar problem (see link below) and I plan to change mine (post IVA) as a matter of precaution.
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-tec...ls/35173-new-front-suspension.html#post346089
Regards,
Andy

 

[Mike Pass]

Re: This happens to a Tornado if you really race it

The same thing happened to Des Finnan's car on track at the club AGM day at Donnington. The lower arm bent and then broke. As Frank says it is a well known issue with Tornados when used on track where the stresses are much higher than on the road.

However using any road car on track it is necessary to consider whether it is up to that job without modification.

I am not aware of whether there is any specific factory recommendation about the use of Tornados on a track or any advice as to what strengthening may be needed if so used.

It is fairly clear however that at least the lower wishbones should be replaced with much stronger items if track or severe use is to be envisaged.

Cheers
Mike

 

[(C)arlos]

Re: This happens to a Tornado if you really race it

So far so good..

taken from the Tornado Webpage Tornado TS40 Chassis

/quote/
The TORNADO TSC GT40 chassis has been purpose designed for everyday road car use and is capable of true supercar performance.
/quote end/


Are there parts in the price list that indicate an updated control arm ?
Not that I am aware of !

Is there a warning that the car should not be used on the track ?
Not that I am aware of !

If i have purchased an "old kit" did I receive an warning from tornado about the issue ?
Not that I remember !

Is there any warning on the website not to use the car on the track?
Not that I found one. And remember there are videos made by themselves showing the car on a drag strip. ( not to compare apples with bananas here but...)

I own several Cars, ford S-Max, Golf III convertible, Ford Mustang convertible, 427 Cobra Replica, Citroen HY ( yes even such ugly transporters). And not to forgett my Honda 900RR. Would I expect parts to break or fell of taking them on the ring ....
No not even the horn....! ( ok perhaps my wife from my bikes passenger seat but that is a different story :idea: )

I have owned a lot of cars in my life, and several have seen the race track..Did ever a suspension part, or control arm fail ..?

NEVER...!!!

To be honest, I don't want to imagine what happens if people push the "carbon mono" on a racetrack.

The same thing happened to Des Finnan's car on track at the club AGM day at Donnington. The lower arm bent and then broke. As Frank says it is a well known issue with Tornados when used on track where the stresses are much higher than on the road.

However using any road car on track it is necessary to consider whether it is up to that job without modification.

I am not aware of whether there is any specific factory recommendation about the use of Tornados on a track or any advice as to what strengthening may be needed if so used.

It is fairly clear however that at least the lower wishbones should be replaced with much stronger items if track or severe use is to be envisaged.

Cheers
Mike

 

Re: This happens to a Tornado if you really race it

Remember the old song
Three wheels on my wagon and I'm still rolling along..........
Two wheels on my wagon and I'm still rolling along..........
One wheel on my wagon and I'm still rolling along..........
NO wheels on my Wagon and I'm laying in a ditch ..DEAD.

 

[(C)arlos]

Re: This happens to a Tornado if you really race it

Remember the old song
Three wheels on my wagon and I'm still rolling along..........
Two wheels on my wagon and I'm still rolling along..........
One wheel on my wagon and I'm still rolling along..........
NO wheels on my Wagon and I'm laying in a ditch ..DEAD.

:lipsrsealed:

 

[Paul W]

Re: This happens to a Tornado if you really race it

I upgraded my wishbones to the Southern GT items last year after seeing my lower ones had started to bend in exactly the same way as others on here have. I know quite a few owners who have also done the same.

 

[Keith]

Re: This happens to a Tornado if you really race it

Looking at pictures of that chassis I can see rusty bolts and nuts. Is that good for track performance, or does that reflect the standard to which your friend keeps his cars??

To be honest, if you hammer around a place like that even a Hummer would break. I have had many suspension parts fail on the road on standard road cars in the past 45 years, but I do not recall anyone telling me it "might" happen or my filing cabinet full of copies of my letters to the national press warning of imminent death from such a product.

"Wear and Tear" does that.

If I were to "race" any vehicle ever again, especially where there excessive braking forces and violent camber changes and the car originally "came in a box" I am damned sure that regular crack testing and beefing up of standard suspension and brake parts would be the standard maintenance regime.

 

[Darrin]

Re: This happens to a Tornado if you really race it

As others I see now have mentioned, I think this was supposed to be corrected by Tornado, but if not, or you don't want to go that route, I thought that my builder offered a conversion to a stronger suspension (know they offer various upgrades for the Tornado) but I won't swear to that. I'd post a link to their components but I don't want to violate any rules.

FWIW, I think you should probably talk to the builder before subjecting any of these cars to racing. I know that Tornado offered some things to strengthen the car for just that purpose.

Just curious....does Tornado offer an upgrade to the factory control arm?

I'm curious b/c the Tornado interests me, being the most complete kit out there, and although I have no interest in serious racing, I would like for it to be safe for spirited driving.

Cheers!

Doug

 

[Andy Sheldon]

Re: This happens to a Tornado if you really race it

The standard wishbones are for general road use and light track use. They are not intended for competition use.

For hard track use we have always offered a suspension upgrade which includes fully rose jointed suspension.

The standard wishbones have been upgraded sometime ago but as we have been manufacturing these cars for 23 years there are some very old cars out there.

I am sure other manufacturers will face similar problems when they have been producing kits for such a long period of time.

Thanks

Andy

 

[Darrin]

Re: This happens to a Tornado if you really race it

Do you have retrofit kit for folks that already have the Tornado that you could provide a link to?

The standard wishbones are for general road use and light track use. They are not intended for competition use.

For hard track use we have always offered a suspension upgrade which includes fully rose jointed suspension.

The standard wishbones have been upgraded sometime ago but as we have been manufacturing these cars for 23 years there are some very old cars out there.

I am sure other manufacturers will face similar problems when they have been producing kits for such a long period of time.

Thanks

Andy