Remote engine oil filter location on RCR with Coyote 5.0lt

#1
Hi all, just looking for some advice. Is it OK to orient a filter as per below? Yes it will be fun to change but I can deal with that.

The filter is before the cooler (hot oil goes through the filter easier) and the location assist routing hoses under the drive shaft (there will be protection for the hoses). I have no room on the side of the engine and did not want to go to the front of the engine and back to the rear. Any comments greatly appreciated.


 
#2
if it is on the scavenge side i think an oberg style up high would work good for checking debris. on the pressure side i would prefer something like a 100 micron canister prior to the cooler, then another smaller micron prior to the engine. otherwise you have to hope nothing comes loose in the cooler. lines might be a little small, can't tell the size.
 
#3
I don't see a problem with location, but question hose size too. My hoses are -12. -10 may be OK on a V8, but I'm not sure.
 

Will Campbell

Bronze Supporter
#4
That's really a nice swaybar and mount.

Re the filter, I think it would be fine, but why not check with the filter manufacturer to be sure?

If I were mounting one in that general area, I might make a bracket that mounts the filter on the long black tube going back to the end of the tray, instead of laying the filter on the tray, which seems to offer no real advantage from what I can see.
 

flatchat(Chris)

Bronze Supporter
#5
Keep it all low and short as possible -- every corner or turn is a pressure loss same as uphill or head height
Might be better with a dry sump arrangement -- there is a nice billet Al. pan with built in pump for these motors, ya know
 
#6
I would be interested to know if the orientation of the oil cooler is ok? Can it be located with the inlet/outlet at the bottom? Most of the ones Ive seen have those at the top of the cooler.
 
#7
I was worried too about the cooler orientation. I contacted Setrab in Sweden and had them review the installation, and they confirmed it was fine with no cooler performance degradation when setup this way. Their support was excellent.

All engine hoses and fittings are indeed -12 not -10, thanks for the reminder though.

Regarding the dry sump the problem is pump drive clearance. What manufacturer has one with an internal pump flat chat? Only ones I have seen are integral on the side of the pan? I believe I have spoken to most of them and none will fit without even more extensive work to the chassis on the RCR.
 
#8
Jason

Just my two cents worth, but if you have a choice of mounting then my preference is to mount filters vertically for two reasons

1 The filter doesnt drop half it's oil when you unscrew it
2 When you install a new filter all the oil you primed it with stays in there and the system primes easier :- less time with low oil on start-up


The other comment I would make is that I like the filter after everything else in case there is even a tiny bit of crap in the system. Remote mounting also gives you the capability to go to a larger capacity filter like HP6 and you have less chance of it bypassing internally


Cheers

KB
 
#9
Jason 99% of automotive oil filters are on their side screwed to the block if that is your worry.
Location wise you gota do what you gota do sometimes.

If you are filtering the cooler to save it from particles if an eng goes oops, dont bother.
New eng new cooler you cant clean them and know for sure, just bin it.

Jim
 
#11
Jason, are the oil coolers generally mounted with the inlet/outlet at the top so they don't empty their content when the oil filter is being Changed? Can you prime your system easily?
Regards, Gus.
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Premier Supporter
#12
Remote mounting also gives you the capability to go to a LARGER CAPACITY FILTER like HP6 and you have less chance of it bypassing internally

Evidently "larger" isn't the big deal it used to be as far as today's filters are concerned. I had a looooooong talk with a Wix Filter rep at the Goodguys S.W Nats in Scottsdale this past November. He said the technology behind today's filters is such that "bigger" really means nothing/adds nothing as far as oil filter efficiency/life is concerned today...and went on to explain all the 'tech' reasons why. (As a side note, he also said one shouldn't even think about using a race filter on the street because of all the different needs involved/addressed [pressures/temps/stresses/r.p.m., etc.] between the two applications. Race filters do tend to be a bit "larger" - but, that's a function of the actual flow needed vs. partical filtration demands present under race conditions.)

I came away still clinging to my old prejudices by a thread...but, in my gut I have to believe he knew what he was talking about. One e.g.: BMW wants a new car to go TEN THOUSAND MILES before changing its break-in oil! (Yeah, I know. That floored me too!) And yet the oil filter on my wife's TT 335 coupe was just about the size of the average man's fist. Would BMW trust a filter that small to go that far if it didn't/couldn't do the job?

Regardless, I still run the biggest 'filter that will fit! Old habits/beliefs die hard!
 

Doug S.

Lifetime Premier Supporter
#13
Evidently "larger" isn't the big deal it used to be as far as today's filters are concerned. I had a looooooong talk with a Wix Filter rep at the Goodguys S.W Nats in Scottsdale this past November....(As a side note, he also said one shouldn't even think about using a race filter on the street because of all the different needs involved/addressed [pressures/temps/stresses/r.p.m., etc.] between the two applications. Race filters do tend to be a bit "larger" - but, that's a function of the actual flow needed vs. partical filtration demands present under race conditions.)
I like to run two filters if there is room...one canister type exiting into an Oberg/sandwich style screen type filter. The screens come in various micron ratings that are useful for just that reason, as are race/street ready canister filters. On a street engine the pancake filter could filter any by-passed oil from the canister filter if you chose the right screen. Oberg makes a unit with a pressure sensor that alerts you if the screen is clogged...not that any of us would ever let our oil go that long....:lipsrsealed:

Cheers!

Doug
 
#14
Jason

looks ok to me

I have mounted mine in the same location just sidewards. makes it easier to change and less elbows for the hose routing. Pay attention to have AN12 sizing all the way ( hoses, couplings, also remote filter holes and adapters) dont use an AN10 to AN12 adapter anywhere. Mounting the filter upfront the cooler is also protecting the cooler from debris in case some shit happens and allows you to reuse the cooler.



TOM
 
#16
Thanks Tom, Chris and others above. Yes I have -12 straight from the engines remote filter adapter. Also very limited bends in the plumbing.

Really if the engine craps itself big time I would probably just replace the cooler, they are pretty cheap and its not worth the risk of crap inside it getting to the new engine.

I do really like this forum and the people responding. Jury is still out on the filter before or after the cooler though. Getting bids either way. I can swap in 10 minutes without any plumbing changes with the remote filter body I have and both inlet and outlet on the bottom on the cooler. I may make some calls tomorrow to try to get a definitive answer. Looks like ultimately it may be a matter of personal preference. As an engineer I hate that type of decision!
 
#18
Will do. I actually looked into a Dailey sump, pretty nice. Problem is when things are not in Australia and you have very little room in the car I do not want a great expensive paper weight.

I would still go dry sump but maybe I have to wait for more of these to come out to see if one will fit the RCR/Coyote with A/C. Yep the pump drive needs to be on the LHS of the vehicle.
 

Randy V

Administrator
#19
Jason, if you can, I would mount the filter so that it filters the oil before going into the cooler. Filters work better and are less restrictive with warmer oil.
That said, I also like to take the temperature of the oil as it is fed back into the engine so you know the temp of the oil you are feeding the bearings. Don't know if this is easily done with your engine oil adapter or not.
 
#20
The ports in my filter adapter (bolts in place of filter to allow oil lines to be attached) and the ports in the cooler itself are 5/8 diameter (AN10) in diameter. How does running 3/4 inch (AN12) diameter ID hose between these smaller ports make a real difference.

I totally agree with the idea of keeping the 90 degree turns to a minimum and using tubing adapters instead of solid 90s but I am a loss to see how running the same size hose as the ports is a reduction in performance. I know about length of hose and pressure loss but I think runs of less than 8 feet total from the engine to the cooler and back isn't far enough to have much of an effect.

Engineers chime in and lend us your informed advice.

As a aside. Someone on this site posted a bunch of pictures of filters cut open and pointed out internal features years ago. The bottom line was the cheap on sale filter ($1.98 Frams etc) are worthless. The releaf valves fail under pressure and stick open. The good ones seam to have been the OEM filters like Motorcraft, AC Delco etc. and Moroso or K&N.
 
Top