Scotts build thread

Scott Rowland

Supporter
My head is now spinning trying to crunch all the 'total cost' estimates /assumptions represented by the various available engine/tranny combos mentioned above in the attempt to come up with a clear cut winner!

Having tried that, I remain convinced that, from a total $$$ standpoint (not to mention the advantage of not having to address a possible trainload of 'unknown variables' and Murphy's Law-generated 'pitfalls' that could spring from same...as well as the extra time that will likely be spent dealing with each/all of them), the Graz is the simplest, easiest, least 'complicated', potentially least 'consequential'...and most cost effective way to go overall.

Buuut, hey...admittedly, I'm not the brightest bulb on the Christmas Tree...so... :sad:
Haha. The only way a Graz makes sense for me, is if I picked up the V10 it is supposed to be hooked to. Lol. If I keep the 1UZ, then I can reuse everything I already have except for the shifter if I go with a Porsche Turbo box. I have a G50 right now that should be fresh rebuilt. But, it will not hold up to the power I want. So, unless I downgrade my hp goals, I need a new trans in any situation.
If going with the V12 tt, then there is a chance there will be interchangeable parts since the trans is used by both Porsche and Mercedes. So, either way the Porsche box makes more sense than a Graz for me and cheaper at the end of the day. If I was buying a new kit and using an LS, then I would go Graz.
I havn't given up on the idea at all. There may be a couple hang ups, but it sounds like Speedriven has already gotten this stuff to work together before, so I don't see many hang ups that could happen. Not saying it won't be a little tough, but, I think it is easy to tell that I am a guy who loves a challenge and I detest taking the easy way. Haha.
 

Scott Rowland

Supporter
I would get the Mendeola sequential over a graz. Easy to rebuild. Way more gearing options. And the dudes support the component car market.
I havn't talked to Mendeola for quite a few years. Last time I did though, they didn't make anything that would hold that kind of power. Worth checking again, but $20-30,000 transaxles will put this idea out of budget.
The trans isn't the prob, it is trying to find a clutch. Thats really the last part of the puzzle.
 

Scott Rowland

Supporter
I think I found the answer to the clutch problem. A torque converter! How in the hell did this never cross my mind as a possibility? Brilliant!

Calling Weddle in the morning to get some info. I have a feeling when I ask how much though for a full package, I will get the "if you have to ask......" reply. Would be a killer set up if even reasonably in the ball park though.
https://weddleindustries.com/products/1000177
 
Brilliant!
Following along with popcorn in hand....

Does Speedriven make stand alone ECMs for Mercs V12s that are no longer in Merc chassis?

Repeat...
Scott = bad influence. Scott = bad influence.
 

Scott Rowland

Supporter
Brilliant!
Following along with popcorn in hand....

Does Speedriven make stand alone ECMs for Mercs V12s that are no longer in Merc chassis?

Repeat...
Scott = bad influence. Scott = bad influence.
Yup! It is $12,000, but, it comes with a harness. Lol. If the tiptronic could be used, it also comes with trans harness and the ability to change it's programming also.
The problem here is the clutch, or putting the power down. 900ftlbs at 25-2600rpm in such a light car would be VERY hard to drive with the clutch needed to hold that amount at such a low rpm. I have a call in to Weddle to see if their torque converter conversion can be adapted to the Porsche turbo box. Waiting to hear back.

The motor in my SL65 is 6.0L, and nearly impossible to find. They are in all of the 65 amg series cars. The 5.5L V12 Biturbo though, is used in all of the 600 series non amg cars, 2003+. Those can be had for under $5,000 with lower miles. So ya, a V12 motor with twin turbos capable of 850hp and 900ftlbs torque WITHOUT cracking a valve cover in stock form, is hard to pass up. Lol.
I know, completely retarded and not needed, but the sound is incredible. Keep it at 600hp and it will still net you 700ftlbs at 2600rpm. It really should be hooked to an auto, or atleast a way to get rid of the traditional clutch.

On a side note, Pagani to my knowledge is using this same V12 motor. They have figured out the trans. Need to research atleast what they started with for it. My guess is one from Pagani will be a touch pricey. Haha.
 

Scott Rowland

Supporter
Clutch sourced. Powertrain Technology. 7.25" Quad disk with their specific compound disks. I am absolutely amased when he came back with a $1200 price! It does not include the flywheel, but they will help in the design of it for their clutch.
Steve at PTT recommended changing master cylinder sizing to cut the normal travel in half. There quad only needs 3/8" of t.o. bearing movement, so if the ratio was changed, and roughly 70% of peddle travel was used to travel only 3/8", it would not be so much of an on/off engagement. Coupled with their disk material, he felt 100% certain it would not only hold, but be streetable.

On a side note- Steve at PTT is one of the most experienced automotive minds I have ever met. In all of my years toying in this industry, I don't think I have met a more knowledgable guy (that would atleast share the knowledge). We spent approx 3 hours on the phone discussing hugely indepth automotive topics. An absolute wealth of knowledge in race car design and set up.
 

Scott Rowland

Supporter
Revisiting headlights again. Decided I would try another of Hella's headlights that has a built in trim ring, and even a touch smaller lens. I was planning to make some alum trim rings for the 60mm units, But, so much easier to just get their 50mm units as they fit in the exact spot of the 60mm ones and the mounting ring will make install and adjustment faster too.
For informational purposes, I lined up the 90mm units, the 60mm unit, and the 50mm one in the approx depth they could be mounted to see how different they are in actual mounting depth.
The 60mm ones whipped the 90mm ones hands down in light output with the same bulbs. I had to order yet another set of hid bulbs for the new 50mm ones, so the jury is still out on the 60mm to 50mm light output comparison. In a quick test with the wrong bulb, it looks promising to be equal. Will update once a true test can happen.
I think the new 50mm ones give a really cool detailed look. The trim ring is all alum, and ofcourse, they are all dot legal. The 50mm will give even more room to raise the headlight higher, to get it solidly at the 24" high mark dot wants to see them at. The narrower lens will probably give me the oppurtunity to go back to one of my original headlight designs and the far simpler lens. Luckily, I saved the old ones I cut out. So, headlight design number 5-6 might be coming soon. Haha.

* the little front dive plane is just a test mock up made from laminate, and not complete in design.





 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
...So, headlight design number 5-6 might be coming soon...
You've heard of "career students", right...the people who, for all intents and purposes, choose to spend most of their lives in school/college instead of 'calling it a day' and moving on?

I'm beginning to think this project has turned you into the car building world's equivalent thereof! LOL!



(I truly am a rotten person!)
 
Last edited:

Scott Rowland

Supporter
I think there is another more serious problem at hand. As quoted from the owner/designer at Icon, "a vehicle is never truely done, it just gets sold!"
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
..."a vehicle is never truely done, it just gets sold!"
Well, that's also true to some extent. However, the degree of validity inherent in that claim is dependent upon the amount of time that passes between the completion of the last mod and the actual sale of the vehicle. :D
 

Scott Rowland

Supporter
Is 1500HP at the wheels enough clutch?

Tilton Triple Carbon Porsche 996TT Street/Race Clutch

You'll shoot your eye out kid.....................
That Tilton is also $6700! His all in is $2300, and that accounts for $1100 for a custom made flywheel. We also had a very good discussion about carbon disks, and how they eat the frictions down, and need to be replaced with disks. His proprietary disk material, he claims, will not wear the frictions down at all and engagement is better. Was told by him to account for 300lbs per disk it will safely hold.
Steve at PTT developed the first 7.25" clutch at Quartermaster (adopted by Tilton after) and left to start his own business. He really seemed to know his stuff.
I have a Tilton triple sitting in my garage, and it still isn't worth it to buy new frictions and disks for it, based on his price.
 

Scott Rowland

Supporter
Almost done with rear portion. Here is some shots inside. Just got done making the inner rear wheel wells. Will keep rocks from hitting the back of the panel, but it is moreso a structural part. It boxes the rear section making it super strong. Just need to bond in.
Top is finished, ready for paint. Just a couple shots of poly primer from the under side, and it is done! Then figure out how tail lights will mount.



 

Scott Rowland

Supporter
Have you pondered spraying on a coat of Line-X or equivalent to 'cushion' rock hits a bit?
Yup. In finish it will have some type of undercoating applied to the wheel well. The rear section that slopes up behind the tire, will get clear bra applied. Same with the area behind the front tires.
 
Top