Summit AN fitings
- Thread starter albanygt40
- Start date
AN (Army-Navy) fittings are (theoretically) built to a very narrow specification. Unless the pieces don't meet the specs due to poor quality, everything should be compatible.
Being financially disadvantaged I have usually bought AN fittings on price. I have Summit, Earls, Russell, Aeroquip and SRP mixed up everywhere on my car, not to mention the odd fittings we have machined up or fabricated ourselves. No problems.
That's good news and coming from people who race is reassuring, I try to keep the same brand but find that one brand makes a fitting the other doesn't and so on.
Apart from the 'no pressure' hose I am trying to set up fuel tanks with AN fittings, I know I need to use a bulk head fitting but not sure what to use as the pick up tube? Any ideas, pics or feed back greatly appreciated.
Apart from the 'no pressure' hose I am trying to set up fuel tanks with AN fittings, I know I need to use a bulk head fitting but not sure what to use as the pick up tube? Any ideas, pics or feed back greatly appreciated.
Just be aware that the different fittings use different methods of holding the hose. Just take a few apart and look at the hose ends of the dirfferent fittings and you will see. That makes a difference in how easily or difficult they go together. Some are just friction(fluted), some have shelves(_\_\_) and others have one shelf etc.. I am at work or I would post some of them. I will when I get home tonight. God knows I have bought enough off of Ebay.
Oh by the way, if you purchase any hoses from Ebay, give them a bend through their required arc radius. if you hear a cruching sound, the hose is no good andd will leak like a sieve. Once introduced to gasoline or fuel, and alowed to situp for several months, will dry out and crack. Lost a bunch of hoses due to that. Becauyse the slowness of my finishing mine I may run into more!!!
bill
Oh by the way, if you purchase any hoses from Ebay, give them a bend through their required arc radius. if you hear a cruching sound, the hose is no good andd will leak like a sieve. Once introduced to gasoline or fuel, and alowed to situp for several months, will dry out and crack. Lost a bunch of hoses due to that. Becauyse the slowness of my finishing mine I may run into more!!!
bill
Dave, while I understand that your use of this fitting is in a non-pressure application, I feel compelled to share my vantage point..
Personally I endeavor to use no hose fittings but those from Aeroquip.. You won't find Russell, Earls, XRP, Summit, et al fittings on an aircraft, but you will find Aeroquip.
I will use the odd NPT-AN adapter fitting from one of the others when Aeroquip is not available..
On the hose fittings, I've just had too many failures (cracks / leaks) from the other brands (although I've not tried Jegs or Summit brand)... Lose a 30k engine someday due to a failed fitting and you'll be amazed how you'll spend a few extra bucks for piece of mind... I was the guy that plumbed that racecar and ultimately responsible for it..
Personally I endeavor to use no hose fittings but those from Aeroquip.. You won't find Russell, Earls, XRP, Summit, et al fittings on an aircraft, but you will find Aeroquip.
I will use the odd NPT-AN adapter fitting from one of the others when Aeroquip is not available..
On the hose fittings, I've just had too many failures (cracks / leaks) from the other brands (although I've not tried Jegs or Summit brand)... Lose a 30k engine someday due to a failed fitting and you'll be amazed how you'll spend a few extra bucks for piece of mind... I was the guy that plumbed that racecar and ultimately responsible for it..
"Personally I endeavor to use no hose fittings but those from Aeroquip.. You won't find Russell, Earls, XRP, Summit, et al fittings on an aircraft, but you will find Aeroquip."
Not quite Randy.
Although arguably the best automotive "AN" fitting, Aerquip Performance Products "AN" fittings are not FAA approved, and come with no supporting airworthiness documents.
They are not the same.
I'm sure there are people who will try to save a few dollars and use them on type certificated aircraft though.
Not quite Randy.
Although arguably the best automotive "AN" fitting, Aerquip Performance Products "AN" fittings are not FAA approved, and come with no supporting airworthiness documents.
They are not the same.
I'm sure there are people who will try to save a few dollars and use them on type certificated aircraft though.
Here are the fitting profiles I promised. I can't say which is Aeroquip except for the Summit one which is labeled "Summit". My guess is the double ribbed one is the Aeroquip. The question to be asked is which do you want holding that 45 psi fuel line, or the 60 psi oil line??? A disconnect of either will cost you one way or the other.
If you have the money, I would suggest that the lines that come premade with the crimps(can't be disassembled) might be the best insurance. At least you would have someone to fall back on. They do however come at a price.
Has anyone worked with any of the other types of hoses/fittings?? I see more and more drag guys moving away from the braided lines.
Bill
If you have the money, I would suggest that the lines that come premade with the crimps(can't be disassembled) might be the best insurance. At least you would have someone to fall back on. They do however come at a price.
Has anyone worked with any of the other types of hoses/fittings?? I see more and more drag guys moving away from the braided lines.
Bill
Scott - You being in aviation and all...
Tell me how many Earls, Russell, XRP, Summit and Jegs fittings you've seen in aircraft....
That's what I'm talking about..
Seymour Snerd
Lifetime Supporter
Regarding "methods of holding the hose", anyone not familiar with this subject might want to read Carroll Smith's discussion in "Engineer to Win" p.172. In it he explains that there is far more at stake than just difficulty of assembly, and that it matters very much not only which fittng design you use but that the fitting design be correctly matched to the hose design. And, by the way, simply staying within one manufacturer (eg Aeroquip or Earl's ) does not absolve you of the decision making. You can make fundamentally bad hose assemblies using material all from a single manufacturer if you select the wrong material.
As for the debate about which mfr.s hose ends are not used on aircraft, wouldn't it be more productive to discuss what specific lines from what specific mfr.s should be used on GT-40s? How is it relevant whether any particular fitting is FAA approved and/or comes with airworthiness documentation? We're talking about ground vehicles, right, or did I miss a step in the GT-40s evolution?
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If you have a good hydraulic hose shop in your area they will make the lines for you (take the old ones in with you), often times, while you wait. A good hose shop can make hoses specific to the liquid being carried (fuel hose usually has a liner such as teflon) and with pressed/crimped on end fittings that are very high grade.
We have a lot of very good hose shops in Seattle with all the aviation sub-contracting in the area associated with Boeing. I had all the Summit-type AN fitting fuel hoses replaced with teflon lined fuel fuel injection (100psi+) hose and pressed/crimped fittings for about $500.00 (www.americanhose.com). I'm pretty confident these won't leak for quite some time. I was not very confident with the previous Summit-type fittings and tired hoses, partly because somebody else put these together so the quality of fitment wasn't known.
With the exposed headers in proximity to the fueling in most GT40s it's good to be concerned about such things. And, if you're running FI pressures (rather than carb'd) then it's absolutely critical. A 75 psi fuel leak will cause a very flammable situation.
We have a lot of very good hose shops in Seattle with all the aviation sub-contracting in the area associated with Boeing. I had all the Summit-type AN fitting fuel hoses replaced with teflon lined fuel fuel injection (100psi+) hose and pressed/crimped fittings for about $500.00 (www.americanhose.com). I'm pretty confident these won't leak for quite some time. I was not very confident with the previous Summit-type fittings and tired hoses, partly because somebody else put these together so the quality of fitment wasn't known.
With the exposed headers in proximity to the fueling in most GT40s it's good to be concerned about such things. And, if you're running FI pressures (rather than carb'd) then it's absolutely critical. A 75 psi fuel leak will cause a very flammable situation.
That's what I'm talking about. Not swapping hose fittings with different brands.
Randy I hear what you're saying and it's not the cost I'm looking at but the availablity of an adapter from one brand or another. I would never try to fit a Summit twist lock hose fitting to a Russell's push lock fitting.
Oh and can anyone list the fittings I need to create a fuel pick up through 3mm alloy?
Ron Earp
Admin
I know I have not made a fraction of the number of hoses that Randy, Scott, and others have made. But I also know I am not as skilled as they in making hoses and if I can do it, with standard parts, and produce hoses that last and don't leak, then anyone can do it. I taught Mr. Jeff "I can strip any bolt" Young how to do it and he made out fine. It isn't that hard.
I use good quality braided hose and generally end up with Aeroquip hose. For the fittings I have used Earl's, Jegs, Summit, and Aeroquip and all have worked well and played well with each other. Gave up the hack saw long ago on cutting the hose, now use a rotary cut off wheel and love it.
Frankly, if you get the hose on the fitting and the collar properly screwed on the fitting it just can't leak. At least none of mine ever have.
So give it a try. If you describe the fuel system I'm sure that between the group here we'll give you many different recipes for making up the hoses.
I use good quality braided hose and generally end up with Aeroquip hose. For the fittings I have used Earl's, Jegs, Summit, and Aeroquip and all have worked well and played well with each other. Gave up the hack saw long ago on cutting the hose, now use a rotary cut off wheel and love it.
Frankly, if you get the hose on the fitting and the collar properly screwed on the fitting it just can't leak. At least none of mine ever have.
So give it a try. If you describe the fuel system I'm sure that between the group here we'll give you many different recipes for making up the hoses.
Dave - I am just now assembling the parts for my own fuel pickups and will have them all in a weeks time.. I will post the parts list then in the Fueling forum.. For the most part it is a 3" x 1/4" alloy disk with a -4 and -6 bulkhead connector running through. On the bottom it will have a 3/8" line running to a fuel strainer sock that essentially doubles as a duck-foot pickup. The -4 line is for fuel return which will just have a 5/16" hardline running down to the bottom and angled off away from the pickup tube.
The ones I am fabricating will be much like the one pictured below except mine will have return lines plumbed in and use the fuel strainer sock for a pickup..
The ones I am fabricating will be much like the one pictured below except mine will have return lines plumbed in and use the fuel strainer sock for a pickup..
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Steve Wood (PANAVIA)
Lifetime Supporter
We use them all the time, they do have an initial failure rate of about 2-5% (1 fitting in 20-30 has to be returned or exchanged. -but for the cost savings over aeroquip. -- no problem.
First Choice if cost is no object - Aeroquip.
if you have to pay the bill yourself - summit.
First Choice if cost is no object - Aeroquip.
if you have to pay the bill yourself - summit.
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