Superlite Coupe - SLC - for sale - Virginia

[Mike]

Hey guys - I wanted to let you know I have posted my car for sale in the "gt40s" for sale section.

I am quite happy with the car and all the looks and attention, but it's just time to look for another adventure/toy. I change cars about every 3-4 years it seems - must be my ADD.

If you know of anybody seriously looking, please send them my way.

Here's a link to the advert: http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-cars-sale/47657-superlite-coupe-slc-street-tail-85-500-a.html

Regards - Mike S.

 

[PeteB]

Jeez, why is everybody giving away their SLCs? Good luck on the sale.

 

[Scott Rowland]

The first guy to sell low creates the market, then either everyone agrees to follow it, or move price back up collectively. Hate to say it, but it may have started with the sale of my car to me. Ugh. Nobody realized how much work it needed to finish it and parts cost needed to finish it. I will be $85-90K hard cost in mine. Never selling if market stays like this.

Good luck with sale though, should be gone in a week.

 

[Alex]

Jeez, why is everybody giving away their SLCs? Good luck on the sale.

I agree, this isn't a GTM, stop with the fire sales (lol! =) )

 

[Kent Townley]

Thanks to Fran and company for creating this awesome car. I love the SLC and plan to have one of my own in the near future. However, I do not understand why people think buyers will pay a premium for a used kit car.

OP. The above is not directed at you. Nice Car and Good Luck with The Sale.

 

[Mike]

I tell you what guys - you all tell me what a SLC should sell for - with the promise from the SLC community/collective that we all agree what the market value is for a nicely put together car and no one deviates from that value range.

These custom builds run the gamut from okay to state of the art interiors, custom parts, sweat and labor values that cannot be attributed into a dollar value - I know this. Without listing names/cars, there are some builds on here that have $10k plus interiors, $10k paint jobs, $30-40K drive-trains and they deserve every penny back on incurred hard costs. Others are no frills track cars but may have $10,15,35k engines, $40k race trans-axles…. all over the map. The value of time and research in sourcing correct information/parts in these builds cannot, and should not, be underestimated - for it translates into hundreds of hours of time.

I'm treading in waters that have been laid before me based on recent sales. I do not disagree with you all’s pricing concerns. There will always be the "fire sale" based on god knows what has happened behind the scenes. That's not my case and I'd be just as happy to keep this car thru next driving season. I don't need the money for a new business venture, new house, kid's college education, new kidney or any other BS you see placed in adverts. I'm just looking to sell the car at a fair market value to move on to my new adventure/toy.

For those prospective buyers who may be reading this and believe they can build a car for less than my asking price…. have at it/go for it. And, a year or two, maybe three or four when you’re finally done add up your true costs – you may/will be surprised.

This is not my 1^st rodeo in terms of “component” cars for I have previously owned three Superformances’, a LS6 powered Lotus 7 & countless other main stream factory cars; what I have generally come to realize is that the perceived value of a hand-built component car versus a factory built car is not fully understood/appreciated by the uninitiated.

“For those that understand no explanation is necessary; for those that do not, none will suffice” Quote unknown


So there it is, my unbridled opinion, I will now step off the pulpit.
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[Brian Kissel]

Amen !!

 

[John]

Mike i cannot agree more , the uninitiated tend to think a "Kit Car" is a weekend slap together vehicle that a 5 year old can throw together, but you and i know only too well of the hundreds of hrs that goes into first deciding on what parts to use, then trying to source them, then making them fit, the countless hrs of work that no one will ever notice, or the heart that goes into each and every build, these things can never be priced, yours is a magnificent piece of kit, and who ever buys it will be a very luck man to own a true hand built super car.
and a very happy new year to you and your family
cheers Kaspa

 

[PeteB]

Thanks to Fran and company for creating this awesome car. I love the SLC and plan to have one of my own in the near future. However, I do not understand why people think buyers will pay a premium for a used kit car.

OP. The above is not directed at you. Nice Car and Good Luck with The Sale.

Mike is asking less for a completed car than it costs to build one. That is hardly a "premium" price. I do not understand people who think a low volume, unique, collector type of car should be priced the same way as a Honda Accord. By that reasoning, nobody should pay more than a couple hundred bucks for a "used" '65 Mustang. It only cost $2000 when new, it should be depreciated because it's used, right? :huh:

 

[Randy V]

We've hashed this out many times before (pricing) and when it comes down to cars like this it is obvious to me that there is a difference between Value and Worth...
See this post for more information::
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/all-gt40/31940-current-state-gt40-market-2.html#post301214

Bottom line always holds true - it is only Worth what the buyer is willing to pay for it..

 

[Bill]

I've been in the auto appraisal business for a number of years, and kit cars are somewhat of a dilemma to value.

Reasons for low value

• Reputation: Kit Cars still suffer from the industry's early days when most kits were poor replicas set on a old VW beetle chassis. They were kinda fake cars that were all show and no go.
• Poor or unknown build quality.
• Maintenance: Like most hot rods or muscle cars, there isn't a dealer network who can service the car.
• Smaller pool of buyers: The buyer needs to be handy or search out a local repair garage for help.

Reasons for High Value

• Performance: Auto enthusiasts in the know, know that that today's major kit cars manufacturers produce true performance cars with solid platforms and a power/weight ratio that few other street machines can match.
• Limited availability: Compared to production cars, there are very few Kit cars for sale.
• Passion: This is a big variable that can significantly inflate the value, or not

What does all this mean

• Stay with a reputable kit car manufacturer like RCR, Factory Five, Superformance, etc.
• Don't build a Cobra. There are so many Cobras that they are beginning to flood the market and that is driving the price down.
• Do the very best build you know how. Focus on a solid reliable running gear, get the details right, invest in the cosmetics of a nice interior and paint job.
• Don't personalize your kit car so much that it will not appeal to the next buyer.
• Fully complete the car. Very few buyers are looking for a project. An incomplete car is worth only pennys on the dollar.
• When you are ready to sell, advertise in a place where auto enthusiast will be looking. For example, Auto Trader Classics, old Rides, Racing Junk, etc.

Auto appraisers look at the advertised price of comparable/similar cars to form their resale value opinion. Unfortunately, there are typically few comparable kit car sales to draw from. The SLC owners on this forum, can influence future resale by simply agreeing on reasonable "Advertised" price ranges. I say "advertised" because that is what appraisers look at, and then owners can negotiate the actual "sale" price lower if a quick liquidation is needed.

Here are some examples of reasonable Advertised price ranges:

• Street car: Poor $75K - Show Winner $140k
• Track car: Barely Competitive $50 - Record Holder $90
• Incomplete car with engine & trans: $40k - $60k

Your thoughts?

 

[Kent Townley]

Mike is asking less for a completed car than it costs to build one. That is hardly a "premium" price. I do not understand people who think a low volume, unique, collector type of car should be priced the same way as a Honda Accord. By that reasoning, nobody should pay more than a couple hundred bucks for a "used" '65 Mustang. It only cost $2000 when new, it should be depreciated because it's used, right? :huh:

As I said in my post, my comment is not about his car or his pricing. My comment is to all the others, like you, who say the price is too low, blah blah.

Here we are talking about a kit car that can be purchased new today. Not a production car that is no longer made. It's a big difference. Not even close to the same comparison.

OP sorry for trashing your thread. I shouldn't have said anything.

 

[Grant S]

All I know is I have over $130000.00 in parts with another $10000.00 to go and well over a 1500 hours of time in to mine and its still not done lol. Would you get my car for $80,000.00 ? you'd have a better chance of having a threesome with Kate Beckinsale and Alyssa Milano.
If My Name was Pagini, or Carol Shelby would it still be a Kit car or a hand built car worth millions ?
I think its all depends to what level in how it was finished and parts used.

 

[Mike]

Here are some examples of reasonable Advertised price ranges:

• Street car: Poor $75K - Show Winner $140k
• Track car: Barely Competitive $50 - Record Holder $90
• Incomplete car with engine & trans: $40k - $60k

Your thoughts?

Bill, I wouldn't disagree with your assessment, and actually think it's a little low on the upper thresholds.

• Street car: Poor $75K - Show Winner/Trailer Queen $160k
• Track car: Barely Competitive $50 - Record Holder $110
• Incomplete car with engine & trans: $40k - $65k

Then there are true one-offs like Grant's, Roberto's, Will's, Scott R's, yours and others - which I apologize in advance for not listing. There will not be comparable's to gauge a perceived "market value".


I will ask that participants in this thread remain cordial - we are all friends here.

And, Happy Holidays to all.

Superlite SLC - for sale: http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-cars-sale/47657-superlite-coupe-slc-street-tail-85-500-a.html

 

[Bill]

Mike,

I'm good with your value range adjustments. I guess I was being a little conservative.

Bill, I wouldn't disagree with your assessment, and actually think it's a little low on the upper thresholds.

• Street car: Poor $75K - Show Winner/Trailer Queen $160k
• Track car: Barely Competitive $50 - Record Holder $110
• Incomplete car with engine & trans: $40k - $65k

Then there are true one-offs like Grant's, Roberto's, Will's, Scott R's, yours and others - which I apologize in advance for not listing. There will not be comparable's to gauge a perceived "market value".


I will ask that participants in this thread remain cordial - we are all friends here.

And, Happy Holidays to all.

 

[Michael Fling]

2013 Porsche 9114s sold new-$122,000.
Today- $92,000. Cars depreciate.Even nice ones. The market will dictate worth. I believe a lot of my decision to buy and build a SLC was based on passion and desire to try it. I watched an Ultima sale at Barrett Jackson for $60,000ish when he had over $100,000 in it. My value is in having a unique car that I can pass on to my son. To the initiated, I might be more likely to put $120,000 in a used Ferrari. Then you could better predict value/worth. But I bet it might depreciate too.

 

[HCF - John]

I'm glad this topic came up, as I've been personally wrestling with the idea of commissioning a build versus buying an existing car.

I've been in the auto appraisal business for a number of years, and kit cars are somewhat of a dilemma to value.

[snip]

Auto appraisers look at the advertised price of comparable/similar cars to form their resale value opinion. Unfortunately, there are typically few comparable kit car sales to draw from. The SLC owners on this forum, can influence future resale by simply agreeing on reasonable "Advertised" price ranges. I say "advertised" because that is what appraisers look at, and then owners can negotiate the actual "sale" price lower if a quick liquidation is needed.

Here are some examples of reasonable Advertised price ranges:

• Street car: Poor $75K - Show Winner $140k
• Track car: Barely Competitive $50 - Record Holder $90
• Incomplete car with engine & trans: $40k - $60k

Your thoughts?

Bill,
Thanks for that overview on how an appraiser views such cars - makes sense.
From an appraisal point of view on a kit car, how do you factor in things like the small individual improvements that the base kit will get over time? Is an identically spec and condition early car worth the same as a newer one?

Here we are talking about a kit car that can be purchased new today. Not a production car that is no longer made. It's a big difference. Not even close to the same comparison.

Kent,
That's exactly the observation many seem to miss - Ferrari isn't making the 250 GTO anymore so it becomes a collectible; prices float with supply/demand. A modern kit car that can still be built has no real constraint on new supply - in a normal market, used examples should trade at some discount to new. What that is I have no idea, but it would reflect use, wear and any specifications that differ from what a particular buyer would choose in his new build. The last of which, certainly, would be a highly individualized value depending on what that person wanted. But if that used car sales price doesn't reflect an adequate discount, prospective buyers build a new one.

The only thing I can think of that balances those discount out is, of course, the immediacy of being able to drive away in the car today. That's really worth something to a subset of buyers, particularly if the car is spec'ed and painted the way they'd do it.

2013 Porsche 9114s sold new-$122,000.
Today- $92,000. Cars depreciate.Even nice ones. The market will dictate worth. I believe a lot of my decision to buy and build a SLC was based on passion and desire to try it. I watched an Ultima sale at Barrett Jackson for $60,000ish when he had over $100,000 in it. My value is in having a unique car that I can pass on to my son. To the initiated, I might be more likely to put $120,000 in a used Ferrari. Then you could better predict value/worth. But I bet it might depreciate too.

Agree completely on both comments - the worth/depreciation observation and larger dollars on a known marque. If you have a strong reason to believe that the $120k you spend to buy the Ferrari results in that much money back out when you sell, you're more comfortable with the high maintenance costs - knowing that's likely to be your all-in ownership expense. What's an unknown with the SLC is cost of exit if you needed to for some reason. Without much of an established market, and the niche type of owner who'd be comfortable buying one not having a dealer network, it seems like that exit could vary significantly case-by-case.

I still want one, though, and choose over Ferrari!

Happy New Year!

 

[Eric in Florida]

Several prominent builders have quoted me 95K for new basic build. Add another 10K for more glamorous interior. Frankly I could not do it for that. But someone can. In the end they are only worth what someone is willing to pay. I know y'all are proud of the cars and the effort and rightful so but 85K is about right.:shrug:

 

[Mike]

Mike,

I'm good with your value range adjustments. I guess I was being a little conservative.

Bill - they don't call you the Conservative Southern Gentlemen for nothing ya' know.

 

[Roger]

A modern kit car that can still be built has no real constraint on new supply - in a normal market, used examples should trade at some discount to new. What that is I have no idea, but it would reflect use, wear and any specifications that differ from what a particular buyer would choose in his new build. The last of which, certainly, would be a highly individualized value depending on what that person wanted. But if that used car sales price doesn't reflect an adequate discount, prospective buyers build a new one.

Very well said.

Mike's car looks like a good spec, with some very nice upgrades. It should appeal to most buyers IMO. GLWS