Terrorist attack in Nice.

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
My prayers for the families of those killed and injured during the celebrations in Nice. Especially the children, so sad.
 

Keith

Moderator
Attack just claimed by ISIS, the murdering bastards.

All part of Mohammed's ascertain that Jihad is the purest form of worship, especially during Ramadan.
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
Attack just claimed by ISIS, the murdering bastards.

All part of Mohammed's ascertain that Jihad is the purest form of worship, especially during Ramadan.
THe speculation here is that ISIS is doing that after the fact.

The guy was apparently another head case, and reports so far are he just flipped and acted alone, although he was Muslim and had some evidence of radicalization.

I suspect this will end up like our attack in Orlando. Yes, Muslim. Yes, ISIS attempts to claim it. But the reality is crazy guy + acting alone + self radicalization, rather than a planned attack by ISIS.
 

Keith

Moderator
THe speculation here is that ISIS is doing that after the fact.

The guy was apparently another head case, and reports so far are he just flipped and acted alone, although he was Muslim and had some evidence of radicalization.

I suspect this will end up like our attack in Orlando. Yes, Muslim. Yes, ISIS attempts to claim it. But the reality is crazy guy + acting alone + self radicalization, rather than a planned attack by ISIS.
i can't possibly explain how comforting that knowledge is Jeff..
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
Thank you for your wonderful Britsarcasm Keith, rather than an attempt to discuss the issue.

It's extraordinarily important. If the guy was just "lone crazy Muslim" -- he had a six year long rap sheet and mental health issues, then that's one thing. And our response is crafted by it. If it was a long planned attacked by ISIS on teh soil of a Western country, that's something else.

So you might want to think further on things there friend.
 

Keith

Moderator
No I don't think so 'friend'. You cannot fight a two tier war against this kind of threat. You fight it or you roll over. This is where the Muslim community at large must step in and police their own communities, if indeed there are 'peaceful' Muslims.

The alternative is decidedly uncivil war between races & faiths, and this will be the ultimate result if decisive action is not forthcoming.

You seem to be advocating a kind of league table of perpetrator, with full on ISIS/Al Qaeda at the top warranting a grade 10 response, to the slightly crazy but nevertheless potentially dangerous lone Muslim at the bottom that perhaps should warrant an afternoon at the correction facility with scones and jam.

I get what your saying Jeff of course, but it's facile that we treat this mass murder any different from the other mass murders perpetrated in the name of Islamic Extremism. The people he killed are just as dead and the relatives of the deceased are equally as devastated.

How can you possibly perpetuate the myth that one act of terrorism is any different just because he had no know previous connections? What do you do? Shoot one dead whilst tasering the other as his actions weren't necessarily premeditated?

There's only one level. It's called terrorism full stop, and there can only be one robust way to deal with it.

France has a unique problem in their historical colonial past. It is well known that whole communities have been disenfranchised by mainstream French society as a result. It'll be slow, but rapid improvements in housing and employment conditions for these 'forgotten' millions might eventually lead to peace, but until then, a robust response coupled with close co-operation with the Muslim community at large is the only way forward. Not a two tiered 'yes but, no but' weak kneed benign approach.

Make no mistake, this is going to be a battle of civilisations - it won't be civil and it won't be short.
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
This is so simple that I can't believe I have to say it.

If ISIS planned it and did it, you attack ISIS.

If a single crazy Muslim did it, you DO NOT ATTACK ISLAM.

Turning this into a war of culture and civizliation is exactly what they want, and will quickly radicalize more of them.

It's easy -- facile let's say -- to hate all Muslims. It's much harder to actually find a solution to a complicated problem.
 

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
I think Keith nailed it when he said the Muslim community have to police themselves, until that starts to happen and I see no sign of it yet, I have to think that the so called peaceful Muslim is giving tacit approval to these atrocities.
 

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
Here is something I copied from another forum, I think it's relevant to this discussion.

It's simple.
When you realise that the clue to who & what motivates Islamic State (ISIS) is in its name - islam, then you'll realise what the issue actually is - it's islam. Note that there is only 1 version of the quran, and that's what they follow. They riot if it's even ripped. There is only 1 islamic prophet - and that's who they emulate. They murder if he is caricatured. History shows how deranged his life was. Therefore the only difference between a radical & a moderate is the degree of devotion to their teachings. Someone learned would need to tell us all how we can determine which is which. This is why all muslims are painted with the same brush.
Prior to WWII we treated all Germans as "prisoners" of war & interned them for this exact reason - they could not be separated from those following nazism.
Of course, not all muslims are terrorists, as not all Germans were Nazi's - but lately & increasingly - all terrorists are muslim.
These are simple facts. So until ISIS & islamic terrorism is defeated - no muslims should be allowed in positions of power, no new mosques, no immigration, no halal, no head coverings, no sympathy, no apologists. islam needs modernising, and if it won't, ban it. In Italy, islam is not even classed as a religion.
Once ISIS are defeated - like a game of whack-a-mole, or a hydra - a new hostile islamic jihadist gang will arise and join Boko Haram, Al Qaeda, al Shabaab. Abu Sayaaf, Al Mourabitoun, Hamas, Hezbollah, Hizb it-Tahrir etc etc.
We need practical Churchill's, not pacifist Chamberlains/Turnbull's. Obama is one of them. We need a plan that includes decisive swift action - not appeasement.

We had the political will to intern Germans or Japanese prior to world war, why not now? I'd have all their schools closed, and all mosques, banning it as a religion so it loses all tax concessions, ban halal accreditation under suspicion of funding crime, and fire all of them in positions of authority under section 44 of our constitution.

Btw - islam is a backward political ideology using religion as a Trojan horse. It is not a race as you can't join or leave a race.
 

Dimi Terleckyj

Lifetime Supporter
Pete,
At the risk of upsetting all the tree hugging, politically correct, greeni, etc, etc, etc, idiots in positions of power and influence I totally agree.

The only thing worse than the dumb politicians and idiots in power is those that support and voted to put them there.

Dimi
 

Keith

Moderator
This is so simple that I can't believe I have to say it.

If ISIS planned it and did it, you attack ISIS.

If a single crazy Muslim did it, you DO NOT ATTACK ISLAM.

Turning this into a war of culture and civizliation is exactly what they want, and will quickly radicalize more of them.

It's easy -- facile let's say -- to hate all Muslims. It's much harder to actually find a solution to a complicated problem.
Your error here my friend is to assume that we hate Muslims full stop. We don't. However, we (and I think I speak for the majority here) need to see proactive action from the Muslim community to weed out this cancer in their midst.

The German/Nazi analogy is a valid comparison.

Jeff, if you are attacked "in the name of Islam" how do you respond? What are your solutions? You are fond of throwing down challenges and almost everyone who doesn't live in the Smokey Mountains understands the nuances despite your constant attempts to prove or suggest otherwise. We are not stupid, racist or insensitive believe it or not. From your lofty self appointed position of forum "Minister of Truth" share with us your thoughts on a future strategy to tackle this alarming escalation of violence.

Over to you....
 

Steve

Supporter
I'm still waiting for solutions from Jeff in the other thread. I wouldn't hold your breath Keith......
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
I'm still waiting for solutions from Jeff in the other thread. I wouldn't hold your breath Keith......
Yeah...as I recall, he said he was going to offer them "later"...'cause he'd been too busy that day.

(That said though, 'I can't recall him ever having offered any 'real world', actual, plausible, workable 'solution(s)' to any problem/issue/crisis under discussion. 'Just mucho personal criticisms/insults, etc., regarding everyone else's positions/opinions/solutions/comments...along with uncomplimentary 'personal' pseudo-psychological analysis of same accompanied by/'backed up' by the seemingly obligatory far left spin...but nothing in the way of actual 'solutions'. :lipsrsealed: )

I'm sure glad I'm purfeckt... :pleased:
 

Keith

Moderator
Quite frankly I'm very disappointed in his responses. As a relatively uneducated person I do enjoy exchanges with those I consider to be my intellectual superior which is most people I meet! However, in Jeff's case (is it ok to talk about him if he's not in the room?) he doesn't seek to educate, suggest, or stimulate debate, he exists on this forum solely to attack, derail, obfuscate any comment deemed right of centre left (and that's being generous) in order to 'reassure' casual Paddock grazers, that 'we' (as a community) are not ALL gung ho, jingoistic, white old dyed-in-the-wool bigoted racists.

I've got good news for him however, we're just NOT, so perhaps he should pack his little bag of prejudice and sling his hook. Or better, perhaps, join us in a useful discussion as to how we can best deal with possibly the most testing issue facing the civilised world.

I am hopeful, come on Jeff, I'll save a seat for you :)

Anyhow back on topic...if you add up all the actions surrounding this cursed sect around the globe and include the mimickers and the wannabes (not forgetting the crazies & the criminals) - there is some kind of shit storm brewing up and we had better brace ourselves.

The world needs a strong & focused USA and I feel the most urgent item on the agenda is very much the domestic politics and fall-out from the awful shootings recently.

Imagine the consequences of an escalation in civil strife and who would bet against tactical intervention and agitation from you-know-who..

A war on two fronts? Unthinkable..
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
I had a busy weekend. A nuanced answer -- more than "I hate Muslims, that vile sect" or "black people must fix themselves cause I ain't wacist" -- takes time. Thanks for being dicks though while I find the time to answer. Much appreciated!
 
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