Top Ten Racing GT40s of all time ...

[Hershal Byrd]

It would be interesting to see a list that would have all the best GT's listed by thier accomplishments on the track. I think the first two would obviously be P1075 and
The number two Black from the 66 win. It would be terrific to have a top ten and a photo of those cars. The criteria could be race importance..amount of victories for one car..

Some of you history buffs might already know. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Hersh /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Steve Toner]

There might be disagreement as to what cars belong where on the list. For instance, does J5 belong on the list? It only ran one race. But it won that race. And that race was LeMans...

So are we to give points for number of races run/won? Should major events (LeMans, maybe Sebring) have higher point values than lesser events (the Grand Prix of Gibraltar)?

 

[Mark Worthington]

No doubt that J5 belongs on the list. Aside from the fact that it was the "100% American" entry, how many other GT40s have a 100% victory rate?

 

[BenL]

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Should major events (LeMans, maybe Sebring) have higher point values than lesser events (the Grand Prix of Gibraltar)?

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Any car that finishes the Grand Prix of Gibraltar should be given at least twice the points of a car that wins at LeMans.

(Yesterday, I was listening to a broadcast of Grand Prix of Gibraltar from the 50s. It's a really challenging circuit, it's very hard on both the drivers and the cars.)

 

[Steve Toner]

Glad someone caught the reference /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

No passing on the cliff face...

 

[BenL]

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From Hershal:
It would be interesting to see a list that would have all the best GT's listed by thier accomplishments on the track. I think the first two would obviously be P1075 and

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P1075 should definitely be at the head of the list for winning the 1968 and 1969 LeMans.

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The number two Black from the 66 win. It would be terrific to have a top ten and a photo of those cars. The criteria could be race importance..amount of victories for one car..

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That would be 1046

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From Steve:
There might be disagreement as to what cars belong where on the list. For instance, does J5 belong on the list? It only ran one race. But it won that race. And that race was LeMans...

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The 1967 LeMans was won by J6 (it now resides at the Henry Ford Museum)

Bill Wonder's 103 should be on the list, as it's the first GT40 to win a race.

106 was the first GT40 to exceed 200 mph (210mph).

 

[BenL]

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The number two Black from the 66 win. It would be terrific to have a top ten and a photo of those cars.

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Here's a picture of the 1-2-3 cars from the 66 LeMans at the Ford 100 event.

Apparently in an attempt to reproduce the famous victory in the rain, Ford arrange for the weather to match.

 

Please don't forget these two.
AMGT/2
P1038

Chris

 

[Steve Toner]

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The 1967 LeMans was won by J6 (it now resides at the Henry Ford Museum)


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According to Jim (MkIV-J6), who owns J6, the car that won and is in the Ford museum was actually J5. At least that's the way I understand how things stand today...

 

[Jim Glickenhaus]

Once again that would be correct.

 

[BenL]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The 1967 LeMans was won by J6 (it now resides at the Henry Ford Museum)


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According to Jim (MkIV-J6), who owns J6, the car that won and is in the Ford museum was actually J5.

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Okay, in that case I need to make some corrections to my copy of the Ronnie Spain book.

The Trevor Legate book appears to have it right.

 

[Steve Toner]

I played around with the data from Spain's book - plugged it into a spreadsheet and assigned points:

Won LeMans=100 points
Won Sebring or Daytona=20 points
Won other race=10 points
Second place (any race)=3 points
Third place (any race)=1 point

I expect my point assignments and specific resulting order will be controversial (i.e., if you were to rank them in terms of their $$$ value you'd get a very different order), but the list of the top 10 that results is probably pretty close (M.10001 is one point out of the top 10).

In any case, here's "my" list:

1. 1038 (321 points)
2. 1017 (291 points)
3. 1075 (251 points)
4. AMGT-2 (124 points)
5. 1072 (118 points)
6. 1009 (111 points)
7. 1046/J-5 (tie) (100 points)
9. 1001 (65 points)
10. 1073 (52 points)

Feel free to disagree with this list /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Oh yeah, and it may contain errors as I may have marked the wrong cell in the spreadsheet or something...

 

Hi Steve

I agree with your list as it forms an accurate reflection of the competition success up to the date of publication of Ronnie's book but some GT's are still in competition today P1042 Chris Child's car for example. The history of these cars is evolving day by day, so we would have to determine a date and also the fact that some cars have two histories, the Mirage cars should really have their race history added to that of P1074, and P1075.
Anyone know where the great P1038 is today and who owns it?
I have just taken a mould from its original front clip.

Regards
Chris.

 

[Hershal Byrd]

Thanks Steve,
That's a pretty good list. Now I gotta go look up the SN#s to see what some of them look like. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Hersh /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

1072 is a local car to me, it is painted red and in more-or-less street trim. It is owned by the Marriott family, the hotel people, and gets driven every now and again although not raced. I think it got its high point standing above by winning quite a few local races and hillclimbs in the UK in the hands of one of its first owners. It's a nice car, very original (well, except the color's been changed a few times) and not over-restored. Regrettably not available for public viewing.
We've had similar discussions in the past and I always find them very entertaining. My vote for the greatest one would be 1075, partly because it won LeMans twice as noted above, but more for the following reasons:
-it won twice as essentially an obsolete car the second time.
-its record of wins versus outings is extraordinary. It finished first quite a number of times.
-when driven by Jacky Ickx, they seem to have been one of those legendary combinations which only come along once in a great while. Although to be fair, Ickx seems to have won in just about anything he drove in sports cars, and sometimes in F1 as well.
-if I am not mistaken, the highest price ever paid for a GT40 was paid for 1075, although this is necessarily rumor.
That by itself is not that great a distinction, but it does tend to validate the other claims to the top spot, IMHO.

 

[mike_starling]

Just a question ... not a challenge: Why would Le Mans be work 5 times the points value of the Daytona 24 Hour? Why not just twice?

Making that adustment would probably change the list ranking some.

 

[Steve Toner]

Well, my point assignments are pretty arbitrary. You could certainly change them around however you wanted nd see hwta kind of results they gave.

I gave LeMans 100 points because the stated goal of the car was to win LeMans. You could certainly make a point that coming in 2nd or 3rd at LeMans should carry more weight than other races as well. Remeber that 1015, the car that placed second in 1966, crossed the finish line first and was intended to be the winner (by Ford), but 1046 was given the win since it had started from further back and therefore traveled a longer distance. So 1015 should probably make the list, but it doesn't based on the way I assigned points.

Since the car was built as an endurance racer to win LeMans, Sebring and Daytona get extra weight because they were not only important races in their own right, but were also endurance races that were used to make sure the cars were ready to run at LeMans. But if all the cars had ever done was win races on American soil, then what point would have been made?

Actually, giving more points (50) for a win at Sebring or Daytona wouldn't change things much. There are only 4 cars in this category, and one of them is 1075. 103 (which has already been mentioned as a possible top 10) would move up and make the list, but 110 and J-4 would still be bubbling under the top 10.

Like I said before, I think the list I came up with is pretty close in terms of the particular cars. It's by no means meant to be the definitive list, however, just a starting point for discussion.

 

[Allan Feldman]

How can you include J cars in your list. They are not GT40`s?

 

Errr... the J cars were called Mark IVs (meaning GT40 Mark IVs) from early 1967.

 

[Jim Glickenhaus]

J1&J2 were JCARS which no longer exist
J3 began as a JCAR and was converted to a MK-IV by KarKraft
(LeMans Test Car)
J4 is a MK-IV (Sebring)
J5,J6,J7,J8 are LeMans MK-IV's
and that's it for MK-IV's. Even though some refer to them as GT40's they aren't.