Tornado

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Darrin

Supporter
There are some folks here that really bend over backwards to help people out even if they didn't buy their car/kit from them. Fran for instance. Not all do that I have found.

I've always defended Tornado when things like suspension issues came up and said that they seemed to have good products and I planned to buy some parts from them. Well, that time arrived and I sent and email asking about their rear bulkhead window (which looks pretty nice the way it is framed in BTW) and some body fasteners.

I got a reply back saying that "Sorry but we do not support other manufacturers products".

They have the right to refuse service to anyone but I am kind of shocked that they really did it since Andy Sheldon is on record (will try to find where I saw that and post a link here) saying that he would sell to people who did not buy an entire kit from him.

Anyway, it's not so much a knock on them as it is just a "heads up" not to bother wasting your time with them if you didn't buy a kit from them.
 

Keith

Moderator
I believe there may be (or have been) legal issues between those 2 companies - in which case the attitude, whilst not seemingly helpful, is at least understandable.
 

Andy Sheldon

Tornado Sports Cars
GT40s Sponsor
Darrin

As you know you were originally in talks with Scott in the US about purchasing a kit from Tornado Sports Cars.

You decided to go with another supplier based on price. Thats your decision and up to you.

Our range of parts and products for our GT40 replica are without doubt the most extensive and comprehensive available anywhere in the World. Thats a fact.

This vast and ever expanding range of parts has been developed over the last 24 years that we have been producing GT40 replicas and has cost 100's of thousands of pounds to design, develope and tool up for.

We are not in this business in order to run a parts supply store for those who have chosen to purchase a kit from another supplier who has virtually no parts available to complete their basic kit package.

We are in business to sell a basic package and then provide every conceivable item the customer could ever require to complete the build to whatever specification they wish.
In short supply a basic package with full after sales and complete back up.

As many know we have recently had several 'issues' with a certain individual and we will not supply parts to purchasers of his kits.

Thanks

Andy
 

Darrin

Supporter
Thanks for addressing Andy.

Price was some of it but mostly it was because I would have been tied to the Renault transaxle if I went with the Tornado and I just didn't want to go that route.

Again, this wasn't really meant to be a knock on Tornado. Just letting people know that if they didn't buy a kit from you then it would be a waste of time for them to try to buy parts from you (even if you did say that would be fine in at least one thread here as I recall).

Anyway, it is a shame as I do think you all have some great parts (the Coyote headers for one in addition to the rear bulkhead window) as I have said and I am sure I'm not alone in wanting to buy some of them.

No offense meant or taken.
 

Andy Sheldon

Tornado Sports Cars
GT40s Sponsor
Darrin

We have customers with ZF, G50, Hewland and Audi transaxles in our chassis.

The Coyote bellhousing we offer is for Renault. Another first.

I have noticed your chassis has no provision for engine mounts?

Supply of parts to builders of other manufacturers kits depends on circumstances.

Thanks

Andy
 
Supply of parts to builders of other manufacturers kits depends on circumstances.

Andy
This is true and very long time ago one of my friend in Normandy had the opportunity to ask and obtain some usefull parts for his scratch built and personnally 8 years ago I had from Andy a nice help providing polycarbonate parts , headers and more at reasonable price and kick delivery .

In the kit Market actually it's really a pleasure to read how Tornado , Southern kits and RCR in states want to help friendly not only their customers but others taking lot of time to reply to any question and sometimes helping more than that ( just read Fran help to some !!!!!!!)
Bravo to them to bring this market to a pleasant hobby:nice::nice::kiss:
 

Darrin

Supporter
Tell me how it is so great to deny a paying customer who has done nothing but treat Tornado fairly in public. Look at my past posts germane to this and you will see what I mean.

At first I thought it was everyone who didn't buy from them but this "it depends" thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Tornado does have some good parts but they in essence gave me the finger simply because they don't like my builder. Not because of anything I did. Maybe that's how they do things in the UK but not here in the TX. Screwing a customer to get at their builder is just plain wrong. Yes, it's his right, but it doesn't make it right.

I still don't wish them any ill, but I sure as heck won't praise them again after this and if anyone asks about a kit when they see mine, well, I know who I won't be sending them to. So yes, they can forgo my money and cause me to look elsewhere, but it sure isn't good business IMHO.

BTW, I have the emails that show me where they kept pushing the Renault transaxle they supply. I don't blame them for wanting to make more money off of me, but it did cost them a sale by making it sound like it was the only viable option.




This is true and very long time ago one of my friend in Normandy had the opportunity to ask and obtain some usefull parts for his scratch built and personnally 8 years ago I had from Andy a nice help providing polycarbonate parts , headers and more at reasonable price and kick delivery .

In the kit Market actually it's really a pleasure to read how Tornado , Southern kits and RCR in states want to help friendly not only their customers but others taking lot of time to reply to any question and sometimes helping more than that ( just read Fran help to some !!!!!!!)
Bravo to them to bring this market to a pleasant hobby:nice::nice::kiss:
 
Darrin,
Slightly Disagree.

I have assembled a chassis/body and other various parts from people to help me try and build my GT40 over the years (and it still continues). I know Andy and myself have had our differences over sometimes how I have moderated some posts (my view I was trying to stop litigation, but that's another story). The bottom line is that he has suplied me some of those parts over the years, so he does supply other builders (though admittedly it was some years ago now).

Brett
 
Believe me, I know how frustrating it is to have an incomplete kit of parts.
However, you can't be sore at another manufacturer for not helping you out, especially a direct competitor. It would be a favour if they did, nothing more. The fact that they choose not too is not meant personally I'm sure.
My situation was slightly different in that MDA had gone bust, so they were not in the game anymore. Andy helped me out a few years back with a set of front headlights, which I'm very gratefull for. If MDA had still been trading, I wouldn't have been surprised if Andy had said no.

I know it feels personal, but its not. The fact that others step up in certain circumstances is credit to them and great for us, but I'm not surprised or disgusted by Andy's comments. Just my opinion.

Martin
 
I would agree with the majority of posts here. One of the big draws to Andy's product is that he supplies absolutely everything.

The fact you chose to take another path is not Andy's fault.
 
Darrin

If it´s about the rear bulkhead window allow me to recommand the following.

As this is a flat plane window any decent window glass supplier should be able to supply you with that window in excactly the shape you want ( even in the original trapezoid shape like on RCR´s ) also in safety glas quality . Should be not to expensive also ( probably more cost efficient than shipping parts from UK).
The frame is also not a very complicated part. Check out Jason´s RCR build log. He has done exactly that on his RCR. All other parts are usually sourcable also, there are multiple sources for almost everything.

TOM
 

Darrin

Supporter
I hear you, and somewhat understand, but it's an uneven playing field in that he seems to pick and choose whom to supply or not.

That said, it's just not the way things are done where I am from. It's like taking a Ford to a Chevy dealer to get tires. I'd be shocked if I heard of that dealer refusing service, and if I did, I'd be sure to spread the word about their lack of hospitality.

Again, no ill will and not taking it personally. They have some great parts from what I can tell.

Believe me, I know how frustrating it is to have an incomplete kit of parts.
However, you can't be sore at another manufacturer for not helping you out, especially a direct competitor. It would be a favour if they did, nothing more. The fact that they choose not too is not meant personally I'm sure.
My situation was slightly different in that MDA had gone bust, so they were not in the game anymore. Andy helped me out a few years back with a set of front headlights, which I'm very gratefull for. If MDA had still been trading, I wouldn't have been surprised if Andy had said no.

I know it feels personal, but its not. The fact that others step up in certain circumstances is credit to them and great for us, but I'm not surprised or disgusted by Andy's comments. Just my opinion.

Martin
 

Darrin

Supporter
Thanks! I'll check into that log.

BTW, it wasn't just the window. I was planning to pick up many parts both now and in the future. Thousands of dollars worth by the time it would have all been said and done and if the parts worked well (as I suspect they would) I'd have given them a lot or free advertising too. Oh well.

Darrin

If it´s about the rear bulkhead window allow me to recommand the following.

As this is a flat plane window any decent window glass supplier should be able to supply you with that window in excactly the shape you want ( even in the original trapezoid shape like on RCR´s ) also in safety glas quality . Should be not to expensive also ( probably more cost efficient than shipping parts from UK).
The frame is also not a very complicated part. Check out Jason´s RCR build log. He has done exactly that on his RCR. All other parts are usually sourcable also, there are multiple sources for almost everything.

TOM
 
Not a good way to do business...in todays economy you think that you would be grateful to have all the business you can get no matter what, but I do not know the whole story.
I have talked to Fran Hall a couple of times and agree that he and his crew are a class act and will go out of there way to help anybody out.
 
I don't have a dog in this but I agree with Andy this time . I can see where he is coming from. You buy a cheap copy of his car ,then expect Tornado to supply all the nice bits.......I think it's taking the piss.

I would try RCR / DRB or similar for your parts.
 

Darrin

Supporter
I don't have a dog in this but I agree with Andy this time . I can see where he is coming from. You buy a cheap copy of his car ,then expect Tornado to supply all the nice bits.......I think it's taking the piss.

I would try RCR / DRB or similar for your parts.

Excuse me? "You buy a cheap copy of his car"? Exactly where has this, potentially libelous, statement been proven Dave? What court decision do you have record of that shows this to be the case?

As for cheap, when is the last time you put your hands on my chassis Dave? I can assure your that my chassis is anything but cheaply made and I will put the suspension components up against Tornado's any day (and that isn't to say Tornado isn't good, it's just that the ones I have seem built to resist fatigue a bit better in some respects).

The Tornado is a fine car and I'd be happy to own one, but please don't dog someone else's product like that unless you own one and have first hand experience. By your standard, one could argue that Tornado is a "cheap imitation". Heck, all of our cars could be considered "cheap imitations" of the original.
 
No offence intended Darrin....But if you want to take me to court be my guest....



If your kit is so good why bother Tornado? Just buy all the parts from who supplied it to you.


I have bought parts from most of the suppliers on this board....Seats from RCR, Tail lights from Tornado, Cars from DRB and RF......Some are harder to get parts out of than others.

My point is we all know history between Tornado and Darren and trying to buy parts off Tornado after you bought a kit from this guy is like rubbing dog shit in their face......

Instead of getting on here and crying that Tornado would not sell you some parts you should of taken it on the chin like a Man and bought your parts somewhere else........
 

Darrin

Supporter
I wasn't talking about me doing that as I have nothing to lose, but others sure might.

Again, Tornado has some nice parts I think and I thought I was actually doing a decent thing seeing I took up several hours of Scot's time when I was considering them. Spreading the wealth as it were.

Who the heck is crying Dave? How many times have I pointed out my intention was to bring it to light not to waste your time if you didn't buy from them.

Don't have a clue why you would view it that way (the dog crap comment). In the US, business is business. Apparently you view things differently. Here, we'd take it as an inroad...a chance to show someone the quality of our line. Perhaps earn future business or at least a referral. Turning away a competitor's customer is...well...darn near unheard of to me.

As far as "taking it like a man", men don't knuckle under Dave. Guess you do, but that's not me. I'll go out of my way to make sure folks know how I was treated. Good or bad.

Anyway, I think this has been beaten to death and my intention is not to cause Tornado any more negative advertising so if you want to continue this please PM me.



No offence intended Darrin....But if you want to take me to court be my guest....



If your kit is so good why bother Tornado? Just buy all the parts from who supplied it to you.

I have bought parts from most of the suppliers on this board....Seats from RCR, Tail lights from Tornado, Cars from DRB and RF......Some are harder to get parts out of than others.

My point is we all know history between Tornado and Darren and trying to buy parts off Tornado after you bought a kit from this guy is like rubbing dog shit in their face......

Instead of getting on here and crying that Tornado would not sell you some parts you should of taken it on the chin like a Man and bought your parts somewhere else........
 

Randy V

Admin
Lifetime Supporter
Okay boys... This one is wrapped up. Okay?

Darrin has made his point and Andy has made his..
 
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