Raiders of the lost ArkMGT - Page 3

snakeeyes · 10-09-03, 11:47 AM

Congratulations, Chris, that's fantastic! Was it the Alan Mann cars that ran at some point with the unusual "humped" bonnet cover? If I were at home I could look it up but I'm reading this at the office (when I should be working).

Any estimates on curb weight vs. a "standard" Mk 1 when she's all put back together?

Driven · 10-09-03, 12:14 PM

Hi Chris (and everyone else on the forum):
While I have been registered on the forum for over a year and a half, my contributions have been few, but I still try to keep up-to-date on all the postings.
For obvious reasons (as the owner of AM-2) I have read of Chris' discovery with great interest. I look forward to hearing more of the story and I hope that Chris will share more of it in the future.
I don't mean in any way to lessen the importance of Chris' discovery, but I wonder how this body was identified as being from AM-2. While some things about the front clip and doors suggest that they came from AM-2, I'm not totally convinced as yet. The rear clip, on the other hand has little to suggest that it was ever on AM-2. To my un-trained eye, and working only by the photos that Chris posted, it appears to be an uncompleted piece. Notably absent are the distinctive side scoops and "MkII-esque" snorkel scoops on the rear deck as well as the opening for the louvered panel behind the rear window. All of these features are visible on period photos of both AM-1 and AM-2. I understand that the side and rear scoops were riveted on to the bodywork, and could have been removed, but I can see no evidence of the rivet holes or the larger hole for the air intake on the photos that Chris posted, nor can I see any sign that the spot for the louvered panel behind the rear window was "closed". Perhaps these repairs were just not visible in the photos. Finally, working from memory as I am at work and not near a car, I think the depressions for the tail lights should have an additional rather large center hole. The two holes to accept the mounting studs are visible, but not a larger hole to provide clearance for the tail light housing and to allow the wires to pass through. Again, I am working from memory and could be wrong.
Although I have no specific knowledge, I don't question that it is a "period" piece, but I have great doubt that the rear clip (at least) ever saw service on AM-2. I have an open mind on the subject, but the items mentioned would have to be answered to convince me. Soon after I bought AM-2 in 1985, I talked to a gentleman in the US who said that he could provide an "original" aluminum body for my car. It was unclear whether it was AM-2's original, or another. I declined at the time as I was still facing paying for the car. I have no idea if this is the same body Chris found or if another exists. Although the seller was from the US, I don't know if the body was here or somewhere else. Although only two aluminum bodied cars were completed, I wonder if more than two bodies were constructed? Perhaps there is still another one (or two?) to be found.
Looking forward to learning more, and with best regards..
Jack Launtz

Chris Melia · 10-09-03, 02:29 PM

Hi Jack

Good to hear from you on this interesting topic.
I can confirm that the rear clip has had some restoration done to it, but after all this time that is hardly surprising, the front clip and doors have not had any restoration and the original Ford Monaco red and traces of gold can still be clearly seen on these panels. I have both of the original side scoops and also the periscope MK11 style rear deck scoops.
Whilst we were at Gomms body shop talking to Frank Gomm he told us that to build a complete Alloy body for a GT40 would cost £25,000 about $40,000 he also said that he new his fathers work, at this kind of cost I doubt that they built more than the original two.
Alan Mann only raced these prototypes in the early part of 1966.
As the rear clip is designed for the Alan Mann style of B pillar, and only two cars AM-1 and AM-2 had this style of pillar and after Paul Hawkins purchase in 1966 of AM-2 the B pillar was built to fit the standard rear clip side scoop and standard GRP doors the original alloy body being removed.
AM-1 went to the USA complete with Alloy body to Holman Moody,
I will post photos later of the rear deck scoops.
Regards
Chris

Hershal Byrd · 10-10-03, 02:00 AM

Chris,
I want to thank you for sharing this with us. What a wonderful find and it couldn't be in better hands.

Hersh [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Chris Melia · 10-10-03, 04:38 AM

Hi Hershal
Thanks I hope to keep you guys updated with the build of the car also, bit by bit should help to keep things buzzing for a while.
Any one that has the desire to come see the car just ask, you are all welcome. I think there is a little too much secrecy around these type of cars.
Regards
Chris.

Malcolm · 10-10-03, 05:45 AM

Personally I can only wish Chris the best of luck with this project. When he brought the "car" to the GTD40 Club AGM it kinda stole the show. As it should really. I am not totally into all this original car stuff (I know it is out of my league) but I did feel the excitment seeing the parts strewn about Mac's lawn. I hope you succeed Chris.

Malcolm

VICTOR A · 10-10-03, 07:54 AM

Hey Chris, Happy to see you are finally getting some positive remarks concerning your find. After spending time with you and Roy at Monterey and the discussions we had, I am sure you will do the car right. Don't let any of the Nay Sayers get in the way and remember what I said about the Horses.

Vic the CAValier Won't fit!

Truthseeker · 11-07-03, 10:54 AM

Just discovered this post today. Lets all hold onto our horses for one second.
This find will make a geat contribution to the world of replica 40s but it is not an original tub and it never will be. Tennant were not in existence until
about 1979/80 from memory. Still it will be a nice replica with real bodywork when finnished.
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Fran Hall RCR · 11-07-03, 11:55 AM

I feel you are sadly mistaken about Tennant Panels as they were one of the original builders of GT40 chassis's
quoted from more than one GT40 book
"his first task was to contact the company which built the original chassis,Tennant panels in England.He ordered fifteen chassis which would keep him building MK II's for some time to come"
This is in reference to Lee Holman buying MkII chassis for his own car and I think Lee would be as good a reference as anyone.....dont you?
Maybe you mean Safir in Ohio...

jimbo · 11-07-03, 04:51 PM

Perusal of Spain's book (both copies, haha) doesn't seem to indicate which, if any, original chassis were built by Tennant as opposed to Abbey. Does anyone know this? Marco, any thoughts?

Fran Hall RCR · 11-07-03, 05:01 PM

The quote above is taken from Trevor Legates new book.
I dont know either if any "original,first run chassis" were built by Tennant but it seems they were obviously around in one guise or another from earlier mentions.

Hershal Byrd · 11-07-03, 08:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Just discovered this post today. Lets all hold onto our horses for one second.
This find will make a geat contribution to the world of replica 40s but it is not an original tub and it never will be. Tennant were not in existence until
about 1979/80 from memory. Still it will be a nice replica with real bodywork when finnished.
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Well come on Abby, if you know something the rest of don't then let's have it. You come off sounding like you know the facts but you ain't puttin' your money where yopur mouth is. Your signiture says nothing and now you come on the board with this ... So what's the deal, either you got the scoop or you don't. If you do, then clue us all in and make it a fair debate. If not then go away.
We get trolls in here once in a while and in my opinion that's what you will be as long as you carry nothing in your profile and provide no facts.

Sorry but that's the way I see it. You could be the nicest guy in the world but this is not putting your best foot forward..

Hersh [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Jools · 11-07-03, 09:52 PM

Go get'em, Hersh the Troll Slayer!

Truthseeker · 11-08-03, 10:38 AM

So sorry everyone, I forgot that this forum was an exclusive club.
Facts are facts a Tennant chassis is a replica chassis. (not a bad one at that) but it is not an original 60's GT40 chassis OK!
People who say otherwise are incorrect. Ignorance is no excuse.
Do you believe everything a journalist writes? God help you all, if you do?
I am not going to go into specific cases/cars as it is not for me to say.
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Hershal Byrd · 11-08-03, 01:32 PM

The only thing exclusive here is your ability to come on here and remain anynomous, Then you make statements about things that you say are fact but you don't offer any pointers as to where we all can look to verify your words. No, I don't believe everything I read that a journalist writes, nor do I believe anyone that comes on our board and professes he knows the truth and offers no proof.
Ignorance is no excuse. Well then, enlighten us ignorant folks so that we may see the light of truth on this matter.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]
Anti up or get out of the game.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Hersh [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

**patbarry** · 11-08-03, 06:59 PM

That's right Hershal, it's easy to make statements when you hide your identity. The entity may be correct, (God help me, I have no idea!), but until it identifies itself it has zero credibility.

By the way, Ron, I wish this board had a spell checker!

Ron Earp · 11-08-03, 08:06 PM

I'm afraid I don't know much at all about all this original stuff - I just like cars for what they are and what they can be used for. But, my congratulations Chris! I hope that the build goes smoothly and I know you'll have a wonderful car!

Good job Hershal, if there is info or proof let's have it! This isn't an exclusive club - if it were I wouldn't let every Tom, Dick, and Harry register. It is open to all. But don't be suprised if you get on the forum promising things or making alusions to information that cannot be backed - everyone on here is nice but firm and do not suffer fools gladly.

Best,
Ron

Bigend · 11-08-03, 08:16 PM

I have nothing but admiration for all those on this forum who build, drive and generally get invoved with everything to do with GT40s. I have learned an enormous amount from these people from all over the world. Why can't we get away from this replica/orginal/copy/restoration/recreation feather ruffling and just get on with enjoying our wonderful hobby? People like Abbey just aren't worth wasting time on. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Pete. · 11-08-03, 10:27 PM

Well said Jasper! Come on Abbey let us know who you are, until then, like Hersh said you have no cred.

MK -IV J6 · 11-08-03, 11:27 PM

As the owner of several original racecars I am amused at those who think that many "original" race cars are original.
J6 which raced in only one race and remains in very original condition is extremely rare. Most racecars are raced, damaged, repaired, damaged again etc. Engines are repalced, bodies are replaced, chassis are replaced. The legal def. of original (title to original chassis) rarely means unmolested. There have been entire "original" cars constructed completely out of non original parts or nos original parts. NOTHING remains of the original car. I think SCM put's it correctly. "No Stories" cars are very rare.
Chris has very carefully stated exactly what his car is. I think it's very special. Guess what? I also think a pure replica put together lovingly is very special.
Some of us are custodians of history. We are very lucky. Those who build their dreams are also very lucky.
As for "experts" they too often get it wrong.
J6 was the Foyt/Gurney LeMans winner. Not!