427 in a Mk1

[Quinn]

I have the fortunate luck of having a father-in-law that will give me a 427 side-oiler, if I pay to complete the rebuild. Currently, it sits in a machine shop in pieces. All the parts are there, just requires labor time to complete. My father-in-law already has a 428 that he'll be installing in an AC Cobra.

So here's my dilema:

I greatly prefer the classic body lines of the Mk1 over the Mk2. And judging by the members rides in this forum, we're all in agreement. But as far as I can tell, there are no replicas that are designed to put a big block in a Mk1 Body.

Is this correct, or am I misinformed?
Would a big block simply overheat without the extra scoops of the Mk2?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Quinn

[Gary Kadrmas]

Quinn,

I think you are going to get a few mixed opinions about putting a 427 in a GT40 MkI. May as well put a 427 in a Simca and save the MkI for a SBF.

Gary

[Mike Drew]

IMHO, just because you have a great engine doesn't automatically mean you should try to use it in a venue it wasn't designed for. You could just as easily have a nice 427-tri-power Corvette motor, for example.

That side-oiler is worth big bucks. You could probably sell the bits for what it would cost to purchase a complete, running, rockin' sockin' small-block Ford.

Or, alternately, get a Mk 2 GT40, which would be a match made in heaven.

[M. Duell / Owner TTR]

IMHO,
It is your dream car and the engine will be in a replica. If you want to stuff a 427 SO into a Mark I body go for it! The cooling issues can be worked out. Having owned a few FE motors I know a few things that may help. Better put aside a nice chuck of cash for the transaxle . Just my .02

--Mike / Turn Ten Racing, Inc.

[Fran Hall RCR]

Porsche 930 trans can be had reasonably and will hold the output.

Just because a big block is used does not mean it has to be tuned to give max. power/torque.....if its the look and feel you like,then keep it reasonable and you will be fine.

There are a couple of very nice BBF ERA cars running around.....

The one issue with any BB car is making enough room to the run AC compressor....space is tight in the back of a GT40

[Gregg]

Quinn, you should be fine with a big block in a Mark I. If you don't like all the air scoops of the Mark II, might I suggest a Mark IV.

[David Morton]

Give it a go. The Mk1 looks so much nicer (IMHO) and cooling technology
has come on a lot since the sixties with superb radiators and oil coolers.
What the F--k is a Simca? Only kidding.
Dave M

[speed220mph]

Quinn: If you really have the side oiler in had, i.e. the parts, sell them and use the money to build a killer small block. The gold-plated side-oiler parts should bring in more money than you'll need. Think about a 302 with Gurney-Weslake heads. The engine will fit, have more than enough power if built right and you'll avoid the major hassle of fitting the Ford FE to a chassis for which it is was never intended. But if you're willing to bend a little and really want the side oiler and are willing to give a little in the looks department, get a Superformance Mk II. Then if you're "well healed", give Lee Holman a call. He will build you an "original" Mk II.

Tom

[Tim Kay]

Seeing that the BB is a gracious gift from your Father-In-Law, there may be some sentimental value (past and future) to the both of you that's worth more than dollars and cents. If that's the case, then making the BB fit is a huge plus for your personal build

[Chris Ardern]

There's a couple pictures of an FE Motor in our ZSR Chassis. ZSR_Chassis
There's plenty of room.
Chris
Historic Race Car Replicas

[Paul Butvila]

Quinn, It's your engine, your car do with it what you want providing it will fit without upsetting any geometry. These cars are not cheap and when you finally get one you should be able to make it your own by "personallizing" it to your own taste.

[Gary Gibbs]

An FE installed in a CAV can be seen SAAC 29

[Gary Kadrmas]

David,

Simca's were built in France from 1935 to 1981, kinda in the same place that famous 24 hour race is held. Simca's were built with a Ford V8, but for sure, not with an FE SO.

Quinn,

I wish you luck in your quest for putting an FE in a GT40 MkI.

As everyone has said, it will be a challenge. It is not impossible, but you will need alot of skill, patience, and money to make the necessary adjustments and alterations needed to make it happen.

People that were around in the 60's to witness what Ford Motor Company accomplished with the GT40 Program, along with all the supportive racing teams, saw history in the making.

For me, I look at the Ford GT40 as an icon. If changes to the GT40 were meant to be, someone did it back then. So, the evolution of the GT40 saw many changes, all reflecting the history and records that people read about today and want to duplicate. Some followers are drawn to a configuration that appeals to them for one reason or another. Their is nothing wrong with making changes to history. It is just easier if you have alot of $$$$$ in your piggy bank.

Good luck,

Gary

[Russ Noble]

Quinn, as everyone has said, it's your car, build it the way that suits you.

It's only if you are trying to recreate a particular car using a substantially correct mono that it's worth getting anal about what goes in it. Anything else is merely a "look alike" GT40. The engineering aspects are certainly do-able. As Sandy said go for the 930 as well.

I see absolutely no reason why you should not mix and match the particular features that suit you, or that you like, from the entire GT40 programme in order to build YOUR ideal GT40. Hell, some people have even put in Chevs and Rovers, depends what suits you!

Go for it!

Cheers

[Mark Clapp]

Make sure the frame is up to the added weight. This is from the ERA website regarding their MKII replica: Sticking the 427 engine in a MK I chassis was a considerable feat. Quite a bit of interior room was lost, and there is no longer room for air conditioning or LHD. The engine also requires a dry sump oiling system. The bottom line is an E.R.A. MK II's balance between race and street car is biased heavily toward the former. If you want the look, use a small block with the MK II body work.

[Lynn]

Quinn,

Since mere mortals started dreaming about building their own midengine cars, the issue has always been the transaxle, probably always will be. You're down to a couple of choices and both will cost big bucks. The 930 should be looked at closely unless you have no doubts about its condition. Going through it will cost money, but will be well spent. Even more expensive is your one other alternative: T44. By the time you are ready for it maybe the guy in Sweden will have his ready. Lee Holman will sell you one and there are a few others. In any case, it will be very big bucks.

Of course you'll need to consider other things that the weight will effect and probably the biggest one to consider will be the brakes (others have already mentioned cooling, so I am not counting that here.) Springs, dampers, etc will have to be sized properly, but all of this is somewhat trivial compared to the gearbox. (And, don't forget the shift mechanism as well.)

Like most others, I feel like it's your car: build it for yourself! Don't consider it an investment, that way, if you do sell it and make some money, you'll consider it gravy. (Making money is a very dodgey situation, at best.)

[allanfeldman]

Originally Posted by David Morton

Give it a go. The Mk1 looks so much nicer (IMHO) and cooling technology
has come on a lot since the sixties with superb radiators and oil coolers.
What the F--k is a Simca? Only kidding.
Dave M

You can due anything with that engine. Remember the Ford GT program was experimental. The 427 was first fitted to a Ford GT chassis in 1965. These had the long noses but no rear scoops. The main reason for the scoops was for Le Mans and the length of the race although they appeared at Sebring but were not used previously at Daytona. So you can do what you like. MKI and MKII clips were interchangeable.
As for Simca that is the supplier of rear taillights for the 1968/9 Gulf cars. I also suspect the 1967 Mirage Ford M1 used them as well.
The J/MKIV is not a true forty since it was designed out of the J car using MKII engine and gearbox. Besides its 38.5 inches in height.
Regards Allan

[Quinn]

Thanks for all the informative responses. It sounds like I've got some tough decisions to make.

I should have clarified that I only get the engine, if I build a car to put it in. So the suggestions about selling the 427 and purchasing a small block wouldn't work in my particular situation. Originally, I was attracted to the idea of using the 427 since I wouldn't have to shell out my own cash for an engine. But it sounds like it might be a wash by the time I spend the money on a large transaxle and retro-fit the MkI rear clip for the big block.

One last question:

It sounded like there are ways (i.e. radiators, oil coolers) of keeping the engine from overheating while using the MkI rear clip with a big block. But no one mentioned if the fiberglass and paint could withstand the additional heat. Any speculations on this?

[Curtis]

Build it,
and it Will Be Cool !

;-)

[Jac Mac]

Why not use it to build a clone of GT/106, the rear clip is a hybrid of the front 1/2 of a mk1 & rear1/2 of a mk2, along with one unique extended nose clip. Certainly make 'your' car stand out in a crowd and introduce you to the wonderful world of body sculpting!

Jac Mac