Octane Magazine, Carrol Shelby, Ford GT40 Name

Rick Muck- Mark IV · 13th July 2007, 04:45 PM

Gee,

At lunch today I picked up the Octane with the GT40s on the cover (go figure...) and just read the "interview" with Carroll Shelby. Interestingly he says "there never was a 'GT40' . It was a figment of the British press.." and "Some outfit copyrighted the name 'GT40' and tried to sell it back to Ford lately for millions of dollars."

So I guess all those parts JimmyMac has with "GT40" cast into them are phony then? After all, they can't really exist as they are "figments" of the British press!

And what a backhanded slap at Safir. As Mr. Wood has posted here the story of his negoiations with Ford, I find an apology from CS to Safir would not be out of order. Oh, yeah, that will happen, right after Winston Churchill and James Dean show up at the corner pub together!

Other than that, nice article and interesting pictures.
Rick

Sandy · 13th July 2007, 05:07 PM

Is Shelby still alive

Sandy

Allan Feldman · 13th July 2007, 06:31 PM

The original Ford racing program was the Ford GT. The first 12 prototype chassis were GT. There is a different mention of the last GT112 Prototype chassis having the nomenclature GT40 after its chassis number. The 1965 MKII was not known as a GT40. I think what Shelby was saying that until the production run GT40P1000 onwards. The whole racing program was called the Ford GT. This included all variants the prototypes, GT40 P chassis, roadsters, the X-1 MKII and Can Am cars, the G7A, the GT40 MKIII, the J car and MKIV. I have seen Ford GT on sidewinders on earlier car 1964-65. I am still trying to find a picture of a racing Ford GT in the 1960's with a sidewinder marked GT40??.
Of course I was not there at the time. So if any of you have offical Ford pictures showing the name Ford GT40 or GT40 as sidewinders on a racing factory back car in the 1960's at an international event. Please show it.

I have just read an article by Roger Dixon in the July issue of Vintage Race car and this shows 6 spoke JWAE/BRM wheels on the Ford France car of Guy Liger/Bob Crossman at the 1966 Le Mans, I think its P1007 and unless the picture turns out to be at the Le Mans trail in April. It would show that the 6 spokes were available a lot earlier than 1968!!!
Regards Allan

roaldin · 14th July 2007, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandy

Is Shelby still alive

Sandy

Idea for a book.
Great Chicken Farmers, Hot-Rodders and Merchant Bankers of history.

Who know's, there's probably one (perhaps more) out there that'd fill all categories...

What's this got to do with Shelby? Well he was a Chicken Farmer after all...

Tim.

Rick Muck- Mark IV · 14th July 2007, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allanfeldman

The original Ford racing program was the Ford GT. The first 12 prototype chassis were GT. There is a different mention of the last GT112 Prototype chassis having the nomenclature GT40 after its chassis number. The 1965 MKII was not known as a GT40. I think what Shelby was saying that until the production run GT40P1000 onwards. The whole racing program was called the Ford GT. This included all variants the prototypes, GT40 P chassis, roadsters, the X-1 MKII and Can Am cars, the G7A, the GT40 MKIII, the J car and MKIV. I have seen Ford GT on sidewinders on earlier car 1964-65. I am still trying to find a picture of a racing Ford GT in the 1960's with a sidewinder marked GT40??.
Of course I was not there at the time. So if any of you have offical Ford pictures showing the name Ford GT40 or GT40 as sidewinders on a racing factory back car in the 1960's at an international event. Please show it.

I have just read an article by Roger Dixon in the July issue of Vintage Race car and this shows 6 spoke JWAE/BRM wheels on the Ford France car of Guy Liger/Bob Crossman at the 1966 Le Mans, I think its P1007 and unless the picture turns out to be at the Le Mans trail in April. It would show that the 6 spokes were available a lot earlier than 1968!!!
Regards Allan

Allan,

By "sidewinder" I assume you mean the sill stripes. No, the factory never ran them with "GT40" on them. And yes, the car was introduced as the "Ford GT"....the "40" nomanclature came later. Yet if they did not adapt the "GT40" nomanclature why would Ford cast a crank pulley with "GT40" on it? Why would they produce other parts so marked with Ford engineering numbers and I.D.s? While the name MAY have been given by the press as Shelby alledges, Ford did embrace the name and of course missed the chance to claim the trademark much to their chagrin many years later.

I am just amused how some people (I won't say who, but his initials are Carroll Shelby) must insert themselves into history where they weren't!

And that's all I have to say about that.......

Rick

JimmyMac · 14th July 2007, 01:11 PM

Rick,
May I pose this one.
I picked up a box of stuff last month with some old paperwork.
Now, I have copies of some drawings originally first dated by "LV" a draughtsman at Slough on 12th November, 1964. and these drawings had three or four small detail additions to the revision box until mid 1965.
But - the original draughts clearly identify all of the part numbers with prefixes GT40P

Brian Magee · 14th July 2007, 03:23 PM

All the parts in the J.W. Automotive Engineering spares part list for the road cars start with GT40P....

I think Carol Shelby lives in a world of his own. Every article he has written for Octane has been an advert for himself. I much prefer to read Jay Leno's page.

Brian.

Lynn · 14th July 2007, 04:09 PM

For quite some time now I have wondered why the GT/GT40 was either not mentioned or was nothing more than a footnote to the many Carroll Shelby and Ford Muscle pieces that I have seen on TV. With Shelby, I have always made the assumption that it was because the GT/GT40 wasn't his idea and that his role was more that of a tuner and/or race preparer. With this being the case, Shelby had no interest in emphasizing a role which didn't show him as an innovator. (Although it seems that he has made comments that would leave it open to interpretation that it was his idea to use a big block in the MK IIs.)

At any rate is there more of a story to why the GT/GT40 is so often slighted, IMHO anyway, when the Carroll Shelby or Ford Muscle story is told?

Regards,
Lynn

Jac Mac · 14th July 2007, 06:02 PM

I tend to put all this conjecture in the ' What If ' corner. Remember right at the start of the Cobra thing Shelby was apparently talking to GM & Ford as well as possibly others for a powerplant, 'IF' the timing had been slightly different the Cobra could have been Buick/Olds 215 or SBC powered and the Shelby factor would have been in the ' other ' camp.
Ford interest in Le Mans/Ferrari might have taken an entirely different path or indeed never happened at all, not forgetting the De Tomaso factor at the same time.
For those of us infatuated with the GT/GT40 its just as well things happened as they have, If nothing else Shelby seemed to be able to gather a group of talented people around him whose enthusiasm and know how played a huge part in the development of the GT40( and I am not suggesting that HM- Kar Kraft -Alan Mann etc were any less talented ). Its fairly obvious that once Fords accountants etc became involved that many of these people drifted away to fresh challenges. Monetary reward is a secondary concern to people like them, but they do get brassed off when they see huge money being tossed into projects like the GT & the trickle down factor ensures that there is only a drop at their end.

Jac Mac

Rick Muck- Mark IV · 14th July 2007, 06:07 PM

Ding, Ding, Ding!!!!!

Yes, all are right!!!!!!!!!....except CaRRoLL haas Two "R"s and Two "L"s!!!

Revisionist history!!!!

Rick

Jac Mac · 14th July 2007, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark IV

Ding, Ding, Ding!!!!!

Yes, all are right!!!!!!!!!....except CaRRoLL haas Two "R"s and Two "L"s!!!

Revisionist history!!!!

Rick

& 'haas' has only 1 a, heh.

Jac Mac

Ron Earp · 14th July 2007, 06:18 PM

Seems a bit of the revisionist history was spurred on by Ford with the new Ford GT introduction as well. Ford certainly weren't too keen on mentioning the GT40 all that much. It appeared in some co-ads, but a trip over to The Ford GT Forum - Powered by vBulletin will show you that some of the owners of those cars didn't even know there was a 60s Le Mans racer, nor did more than a few know it was called a GT40. Granted, those folks are in the minority, but there are some out there. Ford played up the GT angle more I think once it was clear to them they were not going to be able to call it a GT40.

Ron

JimmyMac · 14th July 2007, 06:40 PM

"but a trip over to The Ford GT Forum - Powered by vBulletin will show you that some of the owners of those cars didn't even know there was a 60s Le Mans racer, nor did more than a few know it was called a GT40."

Can this be true ?

AAAARGH *!!!!

Ron Earp · 14th July 2007, 06:58 PM

Definitely in the minority, what I wrote should have said "and a few didn't know", not to imply a lot of them didn't know about the GT40. There is a good crew of folks over there and I certainly didn't mean an offense at all. It is just that some folks see the Ford GT, think it is a great car, and don't worry about the history or inquire.

Rick Muck- Mark IV · 14th July 2007, 07:16 PM

History is as I say it was................ "you don't need to see their papers"........

So said Obi-Wan.

Rick

Rick Muck- Mark IV · 14th July 2007, 07:22 PM

Back to my high school English class...."Miss Wilks, does spelling count????"

Boy, if only I had paid attention!!!!

Lackingf a good education,

Rick!

Mike Drew · 15th July 2007, 01:29 AM

Regarding the Shelby team sort of distancing themselves from the whole Ford GT ("don't call it GT40") program...

Pete Brock told me last year that he's still a little bitter about the whole thing, because the Cobra Daytona coupes were actually *faster* than the GT40s and he still believes they had greater potential. The Super Snake (or whatever they called the one-off 427-powered Coupe) was the next logical step in that sequence, but never got to amount to anything because when Ford came in and threw a bunch of money at Shelby to get him to un-screw the GT program, that consumed all Shelby American's resources, and effectively they had to pull the plug on the Cobra Coupe program at that time.