Best GT40 replica for racing

[jonathanb]

Considering building a GT40 for circuit racing in the UK and Europe.

There are so many kits available so would welcome opinions on which ones are best for this purpose.

I want to run a Ford 302 engine (not Chevy or Jag).

Look forward to hearing from those in the know.

JB

[Big-Foot]

And thus the stick was plunged into the hornet's nest....

Welcome to GT40s.com

[Ross Nicol]

Mine's the best, what do you reckon Randy?

[Ian K]

The answer is "yes".

The real answer is if you have enough money,
they all can be made suitable for racing.

Ian

[John Lowe]

Jonathan

What I did was to do as much research as possible by looking at both the different manufacturers web sites and the build section on this forum. That will help you to gradually take a view on what is important to you. From that you can make a shortlist (I got it down to two companies) and then get down to more nitty gritty stuff. I also found that there are many convincing guys around with strong opinions about "the best kit" so only by doing the research will you end up with the one that suites you best.

For me the research is part of the pleasure

Happy hunting

John

[Big-Foot]

Having raced in wheel to wheel competition for most of my life now, I have to answer this;

Without the short-term availability of crash-repair parts, The best you will find will still be a compromise.

Ross - You have a heckuva a car there but is it truly the "best" one? I'm sure it is - for you.. Maybe not the best for someone else..

[Howard Jones]

The car with the best suspension geometry would be the best to start with. Now one more rock at the hornets nest! Which car has the best suspension geometry?

Really there is really no answer to this one. I will ask this thought and you can answer it for yourself. How fast are you? If you drive like me then all of the current builders have platforms that if set up correctly and run with slicks will handle better than I can drive. Unless you are a pro driver or have a lot of on track experience in high power race-cars then I suspect you are in the same boat as I am. You did ask this question after all which sorta puts you in the boat with most of us I would guess.

They all will except most of the current top of the line gearboxes and power is only limited by dollars spent.

Most of the performance to be gained from one of these cars will be in basic R & D, setup, and tuning. There isn't any way to do this without learning setup tech and testing at the track. Many good books on this by the way.

[MikeP]

Jonathan,
How deep are your pockets? What class of racing? How much do you value originality?
For ultimate performance the I guess best would be a one off honeycomb aluminium monocoque like Pete Thomson's car- light and stiff. Next would be an original style steel monocoque a bit heavy but very stiff. Next would be one of the many excellent replicas RF GTD MDA Southern RCR etc. Add any good quality rose jointed suspension shocks and brakes. Motors are the easy bit and then add any gearbox that will stand the power and torque of you motor. What you can do will obviously depend on the regs governing your chosen class. I have seen most of what is available and I would suggest you go and have a good look at running cars, talk to the owners and if possible try before you buy! Once you decide there are lots of helpful and knowledgeable people on this forum and in the clubs who know a lot more than I do. Get in touch with your local guys - I have found some brilliant people in the clubs.
Cheers
Mike

[Russ Noble]

Hi JB,

Welcome aboard.

I agree with Howard that racing is all about development. Just ask Ross or Iain!

However I disagree with Howard that you want the car with the best suspension geometry, that can be relatively easily changed. Again see Ross and Iains threads.

Imho you need the lightest car you can get that has a soundly designed basic chassis that you can work with and modify to suit your own requirements. Doing this is a helluva lot easier than trying to take weight out of a fat pig that will otherwise need more horse power, bigger rubber, bigger brakes just to try and match a lighter less powerful car.

Mono or spaceframe? One more for the hornets nest! Spaceframe of course! But if you're a 'pay-somebody-to-work-on- it' sort of guy it doesn't matter coz you can just have a spare tub sitting in the corner of the workshop. But if you're going to fix it yourself and cost is an issue, then spaceframe for sure.

Be sure to check your regs to see what you can and can't do, that could also have a major bearing on your decision.

There's heaps of discussion on here about all things. It's all been covered before! Frinstance, do a search on "transaxle" and see what you get! LOL
Then you can try "mono" or "spaceframe". After that go for "suspension". Or whatever takes your fancy! That should keep you quiet for the rest of the year!

Good luck with your research.

Cheers,

[Bill D]

Pass the popcorn please - lightly buttered!

[Jac Mac]

Stuff the popcorn, I'll just have a bottle of Rum with Coke n Ice, when I wake up there will be lots to read! Want my thoughts-Mono,351w based engine,None of the T/Axles currently on the market. Can I go to sleep now.ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Jac Mac

[Scott Calabro]

[Ross Nicol]

Yep JB you've opened up a hornet's nest with that question.I hope I don't offend anyone who may be an exception, but I would say all the replica Gt40 kit manufacturers sell road cars.Some may have race oriented parts in some areas but true racing equipment costs a lot of money and would send kit costs into the stratosphere.My car for instance would have $200,000 invested in it (please don't tell my wife), Lain has probably spent a lot more than that. So in my opinion any of the replicas could be turned into race cars it just costs a lot more money than the cost of the kit. I have 4.5 years invested in development of my car and I have had to also deal with design issues that show up only as you go faster. Of course the known short cut is to buy a kit and then copy all the work done on a race version of the same car if it is quick. A few have followed my efforts and I say good on them but if they come out and beat me then the info would stop.Only natural really.
Ross

[Howard Jones]

What I mean by Suspension Geometry is a chassis that has taken correct suspension geometry into account and has been designed correctly to begin with thus not requiring additional cutting and welding to achieve what should have been designed into the car from the first go at putting pencil to paper.

I will concede that weight would be second on my list as long as the chassis will accommodate the gearbox I have selected.

What I am trying to say is I believe that the two most difficult things to correct after the fact is a badly designed suspension and a re-design of the placement and mounting of a gearbox after changing the gearbox type.

So if the home work is to be done then I would do it in this order.

Get your head around a target power to weight ratio. Less weight is better than more power. Tires!!! You can't design a race car without knowing what tires will go on it.
AND if you are really going to RACE it..... RULES!!!! then...

1. Select gearbox based on power output from motor.
2. Refine list of chassis that will except gearbox choice.
3. Select best #2 based on:
a. suspension design, everything must be adjustable in the paddock (quickly)
b. weight
c. chassis stiffness (this might make you rethink b.) Correct geometry won't work if the chassis doesn't remain square when loaded.
d. Brake and wheel sizes. These are very intertwined. Go with brakes that will work best for the type of racing you intend. You can spend huge amounts of money here unnecessary if you are building a 30 min open track car verses a 2 hour wheel to wheel race car.
e. Don't order parts that you will remove from the car to race it. Carpet kit for example. Or a marginal radiator intended for a street car.
f. Buy proven parts selected for the intended purpose. Tell the radiator man what you are going to try and cool for how long and how hard you will run it as an example.
h. NO crate motors! Sorry I had to get that one in. You will need a quality, attention to detail engine built by a race engine builder that knows what you intend to do with the motor. The same thing applies to the gearbox. The power train will be about 1/3 of total budget. Do it right but don't overdo it.
I. light weight panels, bodywork, glass, wheels, etc.
J. Add roll cage during 1st phase of build.

I could go on for a long time but you get the idea. Start with a chassis and gearbox and add only the components and systems you will use on the race track. This way you will at least start with a kit of a "car" that doesn't have a lot of throw away parts coming with it.

Check out the RF race car in the build logs thread. Do that.

[Russ Noble]

Originally Posted by jac mac

Stuff the popcorn, I'll just have a bottle of Rum with Coke n Ice, when I wake up there will be lots to read! Want my thoughts-Mono,351w based engine,None of the T/Axles currently on the market. Can I go to sleep now.ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Jac Mac

Hmmm, so how are you going to transmit the power Jac Mac? Not another major project? Jeez, I'm starting to lose track of all your projects! At that rate I don't think you've got time to go to sleep!!

Cheers

[Fran Hall RCR]

He is coming to work for RCR where sleep is over-rated.......and unpaid

[Steve Briscoe]

Jonathan-
My suggestion is to shop all the models and choose the one that is lined up for a transaxle that is available, can be serviced and will handle the horsepower.

Steve

[Jac Mac]

Originally Posted by gt40fran

He is coming to work for RCR where sleep is over-rated.......and unpaid

Hell, this must be good Rum, so far I've dreamt Fran's offered me a position in the culinary division of RCR, Russ Noble has offered to actually pay me for the stuff he wants done, Ross Nichols got a fancy new clean W/Shop just asking for a couple of extra toys to be parked in it----decisions, decisions, decisions----oop's I think Im waking up, heck Donnas cooking breakfast, whats that smell- not bloody Rice again-yuck!!!! reality sucks.

Jac Mac