Planning a generic build

[Sid]

I love the style of classic sports prototypes from the late 60's and early 70's but I just don't have the budget for a kit.

What I do have though :-
1) Well equipped machine shop and good engineering skills
2) A background in engine building
3) A friend and neighbour who is a very good fibreglass laminator and experienced in big one off projects.

So I have decided on a 'generic' design. Something that looks like it might have once raced at Le Mans but isn't a replica of any particular vehicle.
It will very probably have to be a spyder because I can't find a donor windscreen that looks correct.

The vehicle is designing itself out of expediency and a need to keep costs low. What I'm thinking of currently is a tubular spaceframe with Porsche 924 rear suspension, Audi 016 transaxle and Rover V8 engine. The front suspension I haven't figured out yet. Maybe that could be 924 as well.

I don't have any requirement for the finished vehicle to be practical or comfortable. It will only be used for track days. It would be a bonus if it was able to be made street legal but that isn't absolutely neccessary.

Any suggestions ? after all, you guys are the experts.

[David Sturch]

Sid,
Why don't you drop the V8 in the 924 add a few flares or body kit, air dam full roll cage etc. It's not the price of the kit and quicker than a scratch build.
Dave

[Sid]

Originally Posted by A-tomic

Sid,
Why don't you drop the V8 in the 924 add a few flares or body kit, air dam full roll cage etc. It's not the price of the kit and quicker than a scratch build.
Dave

I don't have a 924, I'm just considering it as a donor for the rear suspension because the complete torsion bar assembly can be unbolted from the shell and the uprights are compatible with the Audi 016 transaxle. My only design input would be to provide a structure for the shocks to attach to. Kind of
I want to work with an existing suspension geometry because I'm not clever enough to design my own.

I don't even have a Rover V8 engine yet, but it's kind of the cheapest option. It's not an engine I like too much, but I've got access to some tuning parts, and it's lightweight. I originally bought a Lexus LS400 for its 1UZFE engine but I didn't realise how expensive a manual gearbox conversion would be due to the need for a custom flywheel. I can make most things, but not flywheels, due to only having a medium sized lathe.

[David Sturch]

Sid,
You live in the biggest kit car country going. You can use Cortina Uprights and hubs, rack for the front. Fab your own for the rear. You have to decide on a car first. If you do a gt40 there are drawings on this site for a chassis. All the stuff is here if you do a search. You should be able to find bodywork in the UK even used or damaged parts that you can repair or copy. I decided on the Chevron, It's hard because no one had done one before on the original style chassis but it starting to come along now. You have to decide and plan from there.
Dave

[Sid]

Chassis drawings Dave ????? Crikey - I didn't know there were any of those on here. Can you point me in the right direction ?

Good luck with the Chevron BTW, it's nice to see one of the lesser known cars getting into the limelight.

[David Sturch]

Sid,
Try this thread. Right in your own backyard. PM Chris he might be able to help you out.
Help - GT40 Space Frame Drawings and Plans
Dave

[Dave Peterman]

Sid
Beware the free plans!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sid]

OK, I see there are some issues with the free plans regarding dimensions.

That's not so much of an issue for me, as I'll probably have to make the body myself.

I've got to think some more about this.....

[glen]

so....what are your thoughts?

[Joe T]

There are plenty of mid engine kits about in the UK half finished etc, might be cheaper/quicker to mod something rather than start from scratch.

Joe T

[Sid]

Well, I've decided on a few things.
I still want to scratch build, because I'm happy enough to trade time for money.
I'm going to use an Alfa V6. It's got a good cost\bhp ratio and there are a lot in breakers yards.
The chassis will be tubular.
The body will be a spyder, so there aren't any hassles with windscreens.

Currently I'm teaching myself Solidworks, which I'll use for design.
It's a bit of an uphill struggle.....

[David Sturch]

Sid,
My chassis drawing is on my build posts (PDF). When you do your drawings draw a center line and build out from there. That way you can mirror the other side. You will also have to build parts. Some of these guys on this site may have libraries of parts made up. The newer Solid Works 2008 and up is not compatible with the older stuff. Just to let you know. You could do a B16/19 Spyder from my drawings just square up the side pods. The bodywork on the original was derived from the Porshe 908 Spyder. I weighed my bare chassis today 120.8 Lbs.
Dave

[Cliff Beer]

Sid, I wouldn't bother trying to glass up some panels for the car from scratch - that is a s-load of work to get right. Like, as in a huge enormous truck load of work. You'd be better off finding a shell/shape that you like which is already done and then developing a chassis and dimensions which will work for that particular shell.

There are folks around selling full body shells for GT40s or 917s or similar for in the range of $5,000 USD.

Alfa V6 is a great choice - the sound is wonderful. If you can get a 3.0 litre 4V then you've got a good amount of hp/tq for a sub-2,000lb car. I'd love to get a body shell for an alfa 33 stradale and put an Alfa V6 in it with a light weight chassis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S_VGgsUrxA

Good luck and post some pics as you go!

[Tony Hunt]

Originally Posted by Siddley

Well, I've decided on a few things.
I still want to scratch build, because I'm happy enough to trade time for money.
I'm going to use an Alfa V6. It's got a good cost\bhp ratio and there are a lot in breakers yards.
The chassis will be tubular.
The body will be a spyder, so there aren't any hassles with windscreens.

Currently I'm teaching myself Solidworks, which I'll use for design.
It's a bit of an uphill struggle.....

Sid,
We have a member currently documenting his generic build in the Club magazine.
A couple of pages of one of his articles is on the website under 'Fortyfication'. In the current edition he describes how a friend of his produces Mk2 bodies at a fraction of the cost. Windscreens aren't a hassle - they nearly all fit.
Rover V8s have a big user base in the fraternity, are cheap and produce a lot of punch by comparison to the Alfa engine, which IMHO, would sound wrong in one of our cars.
Where in England are you?

[Sid]

Dave - Great suggestion, the B19 body shape would be ideal. It's not the most curvaceous of styles but that will save work.

Cliff - You make a good point about the body. I have an idea of what I'm letting myself in for because a good few years I worked on a racebike project which had a scratchbuilt carbon fibre tank and seat unit. I wasn't directly involved in that area, but saw how the job went.
Even so I'm still ( for the moment ) thinking of doing it myself. Having access to the help and advice of a friend who is a highly skilled laminator and mould maker sort of tips the balance. If I had to go it alone things would be different.

Tony - I'm in Derbyshire. I did think about the Rover V8 ( I've thought about virtually every engine ever made ) but ruled it out on price. I know they are quite cheap and plentiful but I wouldn't trust one without a complete rebuild ( I've owned Range Rovers ) and then there is the cost of finding another 100 or so horsepower. I'm away now to check out this article you mention....sounds very interesting

[Cliff Beer]

Originally Posted by Siddley

Dave - Great suggestion, the B19 body shape would be ideal. It's not the most curvaceous of styles but that will save work.

Cliff - You make a good point about the body. I have an idea of what I'm letting myself in for because a good few years I worked on a racebike project which had a scratchbuilt carbon fibre tank and seat unit. I wasn't directly involved in that area, but saw how the job went.
Even so I'm still ( for the moment ) thinking of doing it myself. Having access to the help and advice of a friend who is a highly skilled laminator and mould maker sort of tips the balance. If I had to go it alone things would be different.

Tony - I'm in Derbyshire. I did think about the Rover V8 ( I've thought about virtually every engine ever made ) but ruled it out on price. I know they are quite cheap and plentiful but I wouldn't trust one without a complete rebuild ( I've owned Range Rovers ) and then there is the cost of finding another 100 or so horsepower. I'm away now to check out this article you mention....sounds very interesting

Sid, yup, that's a good friend to have! If you do decide to go with a production shell of some sort there are several producers of GT40, 917, 908, Lola, etc. shells out there for fairly reasonable cost. You might even be able to splash a copy off one of these for a very modest fee. By the way, I lived in Derby when I was a youngster. I have family all over Mickleover. Some good GT40 driving in the lake district! Cheers.

[Jon Marshall]

Cliff,

Can you point me to someone who produces and sells 917 bodies. You can PM me if you don't want to post publicly.

Regards.

Originally Posted by Cliffbeer2

Sid, yup, that's a good friend to have! If you do decide to go with a production shell of some sort there are several producers of GT40, 917, 908, Lola, etc. shells out there for fairly reasonable cost. You might even be able to splash a copy off one of these for a very modest fee. By the way, I lived in Derby when I was a youngster. I have family all over Mickleover. Some good GT40 driving in the lake district! Cheers.

[Curtis]

Sid,

Another thought on your body shell.
Is while building your chassis, watch for a shell that might work for you.
Maybe I was in the right place at the right time ?
But, I found this sports racer shell for a very good price.
It's a bit shorter wheel base than I may want to use,
but can be streched this way and that, with out to much trouble.
And was optained at a very inexpencive price.
Not sure what I'm going to do with it,
but could not pass it up !
Mybe you can get lucky as well ?

Cheer's !

[Molleur]

Curtis, what's hiding behind the Kelmark?

[Curtis]

Over in front of the barn is a Kellison 40,
and I have most the body parts of another one.
Inside the barn is an old corvette race car I saved from salvage.
And I have a 1953 Woodill Wildfire I'm gathering part's for.
At this time just lots of projects !