Anybody need a ZF?

Dutton · 01-14-08, 01:32 PM

This ones not mine, but if I were in the market for a transaxle and a ZF was a must-have, this one would definitely receive consideration.

ZF5DS-25-2

FYI, I've dealt with the seller (Jim Demick) numerous times over the last four years and have found him to be a straight forward, ethical seller on ebay. I wouldn't hesitate doing business with him again.

Best,

T.

Paul Butvila · 01-14-08, 04:22 PM

I'm surprised someone has not picked it up

Gary Kadrmas · 01-14-08, 05:02 PM

90K miles and the guy says it will work just fine...........

Hard for me to believe that a ZF (or any trans for that matter) will not need something to make it operate as good as new after 90K miles. I am not an expert on ZF transaxles, but based on the feedback on other threads about ZFs, I would say this thing would be in line for a full rebuild. If a person could get it for $3-4K USD, it might be a good deal.......but if the going price flashes up to above $5-6K USD, buying it for that kind of $$$ and then finding out it needs a full rebuild would make me pretty hot.

What do you guys think?

Andy Besic · 01-14-08, 05:31 PM

Does the Superformance run the ZF like the Pantera or flipped like the original GT40's with ZF-1's?

To run "GT40" style the ring gear has to be flipped and a oil galley drilled if I recall. Buyer beware if this is the case. Once you open her up you will end up doing synchro's etc and adding another $3k.

This one may work fine as is...in a Pantera.

chuck smith · 01-14-08, 05:52 PM

it would need to be flipped, and you are correct in that it will need a rebuild and if you send it to RBT for that you will still be waiting for a year.

Joules · 01-14-08, 08:06 PM

Yup, and it's $3K just to open it up, flip the ring gear, drill the oil drain holes and add the top cover, without the additional $$ for the synchros it probably requires.

Now I'm new to the GT40 side of the ZF application, but I understood it can be used in the non-flipped 'Pantera' position but that raises the center of gravity.....correct or urban legend?

David Briggs · 01-14-08, 11:37 PM

It needs to be flipped, and if it is used with a CAV(or believe Superformance) or most other Gt40 bellhousings, it will need a new input shaft(from M1 BMW), a new top case, CV flanges and whatever else it may need simply because it is old and tired. If you can use a Pantera Bellhousing(bigger and longer) than you could use the stock input shaft and a regular Ford clutch.
There is a reason why we are all waiting for new ones, it actually is more cost effective, especially if you also want a 3.77 ring and pinion.
Dave

Mike Drew · 01-15-08, 02:16 PM

I've been friends with Jim Demick (the seller) for years, and he's as honest as the day is long. In fact, last time I was in Alburquerque, I rebuilt the steering rack on his Pantera, which he drives every day--it has well over 120,000 miles on it. It was by far the most worn-out Pantera rack I've ever rebuilt--it was really shot! It's easy to rebuild them however, and now it's good as new.

Anyway, here's a photo of Jim (with me in the background):

He's one of those relatively rare people that literally makes his living on E-bay, selling stuff, almost exclusively Pantera memorabelia, and some Shelby and GT40 stuff too. You can't make your living on E-bay if you screw people over. That said, he's selling a transaxle that he bought from somebody else, and so he has no personal experience with it.

It is possible that this gearbox could actually be in decent shape, even though it has over 90K miles on it. If they are taken care of properly, they are just about bulletproof. However, if they are used hard, or abused, or neglected, they will suffer. Also, even when they have wear issues internally, they are so fundamentally good that the driver often won't notice.

I bought my Pantera with 72K miles on the clock, and the gearbox had never been opened up. It drove absolutely fine, with no problems whatsoever, but when the car was blown apart to be restored I sent it to Dennis Quella to have him rebuild it.

He said it was in pretty good shape overall, but it needed a 2nd gear synchro (that one is the first one to go out), and I also had very unusual wear on 3rd gear that required it to be replaced (new gears cost a fortune but he hooked me up with a used gear he had in stock). There were also some worn bearings that were growling, and those went in the trash too.

Now the gearbox is absolutely flawless.

The most important thing you can do to keep these things alive is change the fluid regularly. Many people neglect the gearbox oil terribly; many Panteras are running around on their ORIGINAL gearbox oil! Gearbox oil is pretty sturdy stuff, but it does break down over time and its lubricative qualities deteriorate. Too, it can eventually absorb moisture, which leads to rust and corrosion.

If you can't remember the last time you changed your gearbox oil, you have waited far too long--plan on doing it this weekend!

Since the gearbox in question here would have to be taken apart and modified in order to be used in a GT40, I would count on finding similar wear issues and thus similar additional costs above and beyond the cost of a simple freshening/conversion. Any used transaxle is a crapshoot, and unless one came fresh out of the crate with a rebuild receipt from a reputable outfit, I'd treat it as a candidate for a rebuild. That's not a bad thing by any means, but don't plan on just having the ring gear flipped with no other expenditures.

Mike Drew · 01-17-08, 03:55 AM

BTW, final sale price was $5,721.00, which is rather on the high side IMHO, for a gearbox with this history. It will be a $10K proposition before it ever sees the inside of the GT40....

BruceLambo · 01-17-08, 02:51 PM

Yes, I bid on the box, but got pipped at the post by someone in Italy!
Anyone else know of a box around?

Pantera1889 · 01-17-08, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joules5

Yup, and it's $3K just to open it up, flip the ring gear, drill the oil drain holes and add the top cover, without the additional $$ for the synchros it probably requires.

Or you could send it to me to have the work done and save at least $1000 and probably 10 months!!!

Joules · 01-17-08, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pantera1889

Or you could send it to me to have the work done and save at least $1000 and probably 10 months!!!

Ron,

Careful what you wish for, I picked up a rebuilt & wired spare ZF for the Pantera's and I'm now considering whether to swap it into the '74 and rebuild/flip that existing unit and drop it in the KVA.