Roaring Forties - Robert Logan - Page 2

markohayward · 03-21-06, 10:17 AM

All of you are complementing Robert, which is very pleasing to see. However as a cutomer who has lost his deposit, paid in November 2005 it concerns me that Robert refuses to take my calls, does not respond to emails anmd now has his mobile switched off and the RF phone on voice mail.

He atleast should advise his creditors what is going on if he is to earn respect.

I too have been in a similar business situation and it is all about how you commumicate with your customers and suppliers. If the situation is to be salvaged he will need both. The lack of communication tells me he has no intention of salvaging the mess and honoring his creditors.

Oliver · 03-21-06, 10:35 AM

The only people praising Robert are those who did not loose. Im' lucky I got out..God help him if I would have lost... Oliver

Mike Dozier · 03-21-06, 01:12 PM

Mudplugger

It's not that Robert has no intention to statisfy his
creditors..apparently he is fiscally unable.

And like my boss always tells me...great product & customer
service is useless without fiscal responsibility.
Translation...if we don't make money...the doors get closed.

It would be nice for Robert to contact his customers...
maybe the Lawyers have a gag order on him.
Either way..best of luck getting something out of this.

MikeD

Mitch D · 03-21-06, 02:06 PM

Mike D - boy, if I'm ever being tried in court, I hope I get some folks like you on the jury. Based on your post, in my opinion you sure do try to see things in their most positive light. This is not a bad thing at all and I commend you for it.

However, it appears that Robert did "lie" in no uncertain terms to some customers. I am aware of one customer who was told to "pay your 40% milestone payment now that your chassis is in build". This was in Aug-05. Surprise, surprise, the chassis was "never" in build. This kind of anecdotal evidence points out that it was starting to hit the fan much earlier than most think.

Asking for monies for work not done to try to cover other money issues is not simply "fiscal irresponsibility".

Mitch D

Mike Dozier · 03-22-06, 07:14 PM

Mitch

If that's true...then Robert should also face criminal
charges for fraud. I don't know much about the OZ legal system ...but I assume the Legal counsel Ron & Co have hired are looking into this.

Yeah...I've sat on a few Juries...guess I have an "honest"
looking face ?? Not easy to sit in judgement of others.

MikeD

markohayward · 03-29-06, 03:49 AM

|I have been through having to put my company into Liqiudation then buying it back just to get rid of some crooked Far Eastern investors who were trying to steal my technology. It is a tough deal but it can be done and it is possible to buy the assets back and start over. The strategy is risky but the key thing is to take both your customers and suppliers with you. Explain exactly what is going on and biuld their trust . Lets face it they have known you for some years. This I did and we are still in business.

Robert has failed in the following areas:-
1] he has let down his customers and he will never get them back or any new customers who may know those who have been stung or join this forum.
2] He has let down his suppliers and they will never supply parts to him in the future.
3] He has failed to come clean with anyone at any time and as a consequence he will never be trusted again as a person.

The strategy of the liqidators is to maintain control of the process as they are friendly to Robert.They have achieved that. Fine, but in the future if RF Pheonix rises again it is up to us to ensure that they receive no customers and those who want to buy GT40's do so from trust worthy sources. Robert will get his come uppance, maybe not now but people remember the bad things not the good.

SpyderMike · 03-29-06, 01:11 PM

I had a customer BK and the president was also the largest secured creditor. He bought the assets for pennies on the dollar, wiped out all the debt, cleaned house and started over. All done within a year.

Mike

aus40 · 03-30-06, 06:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Mudplugger| Fine, but in the future if RF Pheonix rises again it is up to us to ensure that they receive no customers and those who want to buy GT40's do so from trust worthy sources.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice. What if the new owners are trust worthy and continue building what most regard a quality product weather or not they like RL ? I'm sure they'll be thrilled at your undertaking to ensure they recive no customers.

Ron Earp · 03-30-06, 08:40 AM

Aus40,

Being as it is your first post here on the forum a lot of folks will probably wish to know your intentions, especially given you've made your first post on such a heated topic. It'd appear you might be connected in some way with the factory or folks trying to re-organize RF, or start a new company from RF pieces. That is fine and well, but understand that with precious little information coming from RL camp folks must speculate on RL's and RF's intentions. Therefore, many people are not optimistic about what might come from this since they cannot get much data on the situation.

Also, you've got to understand that some of the comments also come from affected US customers. The US customers might be weary of interacting with an overseas company in the future without a lot more in the way of checks, balances, or inventory cars to purchase.

Ron

Mike Dozier · 03-30-06, 01:00 PM

Who will buy RF's assets?
An interesting question indeed.
Logical candidates would include a Cobra manufacturer
wishing to extend their line, an existing GT40 maker
wishing to increase their volume (DRB/AF ?), or a newbie just getting into the business.

If an established business absorbs RF's assets, it's possible consumers would have enough trust to do business as usual...but I gotta believe a newbie would face a large challenge. Still...stranger things have happened.

MikeD

RobBeddington · 03-30-06, 02:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What if the new owners are trust worthy and continue building what most regard a quality product weather or not they like RL

[/ QUOTE ]

aus40, I think you missed mudplugger's point. He was only talking about a 'Phoenix', with the existing management somehow carrying on after doing a deal with the liquidator. If that proves to be the case then credibility will be a fat zilch for the worldwide GT40 community (unless of course everyone's repaid in full...).

I'm sure if anyone 'trustworthy' was able to buy the assets as you suggest (a big 'if', because I have seen more phoenixes than I care to mention), they would surely have a new name, a new brand identity (let's face it, the RF name is currently dead and buried) and they would fall over themselves to prove their financial worth, etc, etc. If this happened, then I'm sure the community would embrace the new company, albeit with a more watchful eye.

Yet another [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twocents.gif[/img].

Bill D · 03-30-06, 02:54 PM

At the very least, Robert should close down his website. It's misleading

Wheels331 · 03-30-06, 04:08 PM

I agree with taking the Web site down, I also think most US cutomers will now buy only from the US.I'ts going to be very hard to send my money overseas now.

Oliver · 03-30-06, 04:14 PM

Regardless of financial stability the situation with Rf tarnished the Replica manf. community so much I would find it difficult to put any money down on a car at all. In my opinion, the only way a company can be sucessfull is to have a small inventory of cars ready for delivery.Customer walks in buys a car and leaves with it.Of course this would require some capitol for the company to have cars in inventory. But this is what buyers want. RCR is building cars that are not even sold yet "AS FAR AS I KNOW" This is a great start. If he can have one or two ready for delivery it would show some security in his company.It also would sell more cars. Many sales are lost due to the waitng game. I also think this is why the used Cobra replica market is so good. Yes you might not get every option you want but it would be easier to add it on or change the color yourself. It least you have the car and your investment is secure.

OLIVER. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twocents.gif[/img]

Pete. · 03-30-06, 05:33 PM

Oliver, I agree with you, but only as far as body chassis is concerned. Any further into the build would be governed by the customers individual needs and wants and it would be impossible for any small company to carry enough inventory to cover that.

Oliver · 03-30-06, 05:47 PM

Yes Pete your wright. But actully what I mean is a basic car. The customer can upgrade it by himself or have the company do it. And if the company fails you still have your car. If a customer wants a special build up then that is differnt. But most people in the replica market Build there own motors ect... ect..If you want to have a different chassis then you would have to go to a diiferent company with the same type of ready to go inventory. The whole purpose is to have the car secure so you won't loose it. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smoke.gif[/img]

Oliver

Mike Dozier · 03-30-06, 06:06 PM

Don't hold your breath.
Companies like ERA, DRB, Tornado, and almost every Cobra maker I know does NOT sell from stock. They have sufficient
backlog and sufficient demand to not have to carry any.

Do they lose sales? You betcha....but apparently
they're willing to trade off some sales in order to keep
running their business the way they like it.

Fran's business is unique in that he's quoting (16) weeks,
which when you include the time to import a car, is a huge
difference for US customers. Plus the ability to visit his shop in person for a relatively modest expense is a big
benefit.

If you are risk avoidant, then the solution is to buy a pre-owned replica....VERY easy for a Cobra now that FFR has flooded the market....not so easy for a GT40 (in the US). The situation will likely improve as more cars are finished and trade hands over time...but will take years.

MikeD

Wheels331 · 03-30-06, 06:08 PM

Good Idea ,Oliver!!!

Oliver · 03-30-06, 06:36 PM

Mike you did'nt get my point. All the companies can have a back log but If their is fraud or a price in parts and labor increase could faulter a company. Profit margins are small and a suden spike in cost can bankrupt you. Companies are being force to work longer and produce more to enjoy a decent return. The car industry has very tight margins. Most money today is made in the used car
catagoty and not new car sales. The replica industry is even worse. That is why major capitol will be needed to secure the buyer.

Oliver