ARE dry sumps

Russ Noble · 07-05-07, 08:49 AM

Well guys,

Armstrong Race Engineering Dry Sump Systems
www.drysump.com/
Orangevale CA

This is the most expensive, most useless, heap of crap I have ever bought. If it is typical of ARE's design, execution and engineering then maybe other forum members should think twice before purchasing any of their products.

I ordered it from a photo on their website which showed 4 scavenge ports.The pan supplied has three! That's not really a problem but this is.....

Pic #1
Note the clearance around the rear cap, zero on the LHS about 3mm on the RHS. Besides that the sump face is out of round. Not sure how it's meant to keep the oil in.........?

Pic #2
There is a further problem at the rear of this sump. No room for attachment bolts at the rear of the sump adjacent to the cap.

Pic #3
No room for bolts at the front corners of the sump either due to the squared off edges.

Maybe it's not necessary to use all the bolts, but I would certainly prefer to.

Now I'll do what I should have done to start with and cast my own. But since the ARE piece looked quite good, I thought I'd save myself some time because it looked to be just what I wanted. Never mind I think the old adage applies, 'If you want it done right do it yourself!'

Gregg · 07-05-07, 10:01 AM

Russ, sorry to hear you are having soo much trouble with the left coast. I mean west coast.

Mesa · 07-05-07, 12:26 PM

I'd be interested in what response you got from ARE when you showed them these pictures. They are about two hours away from me and I drive by the area semi-regularly. Because I remembered (pictures in old magazines) an association with Trans-Am and Can-Am (in addition to the proximity) I got a quote for a system a few months ago.

But ..... these pictures really need some explainin' !!!!

Russ Noble · 07-05-07, 04:23 PM

Mesa,

I didn't try to get a response from ARE. The logistics of returning a sump from half way round the world make the exercise self defeating. Also I believe ARE knew this was a faulty unit and took the opportunity to unload it to the other side of the world.

The photos are of the sump exactly as it arrived. Note in Pic #1 that someone has written 1/8 on the face where the 3mm gap is. 3mm = one eighth inch! The coincidence and placement is telling.....I'm sure 1/8 refers to the gap. They knew alright. Chances therefore of a refund are pretty dim since they appear to have deliberately stitched me up.

Several weeks after my sump was dispatched a derogatory comment about ARE was posted on another forum but no details other than the comment that their sump was a POS.

None of this necessarily means that what you have ordered from them will not be right, you are close enough to be able to sort out any problems. However, if I was you I would pick the sump etc up personally and take with you an engine block and some attachment capscrews and a set of feeler gauges to check it before you pay for it.

I've been lucky with my build, this is really the only instance where I have been supplied something from overseas that has been unusable. New Zealand is the best place in the word to live and experiences like this are just a minor downside that I can offset against all the advantages and enjoyment of living here!

Hope everything works out OK for you.

Cheers

Jac Mac · 07-05-07, 05:26 PM

Russ,

Just had a look on their website- the pan you have is PN 1304 which shows in the photo that there is no provision for bolts at the rear main/front corners along with only 3 scavenge ports.

The pan I believe you ordered with 4 scavenge ports in dedicated areas for each crank throw is PN 1302 and is a much better 'looking' item along with having all the bolt holes. It is listed as being suitable for 302/351 which I assume means they have enough material in the area around the rear main cap to allow it to be machined to suit either configuration.

Jac Mac

Russ Noble · 07-05-07, 06:33 PM

Jac Mac, they've changed their website since I last looked at it.

I wanted the 1302 but they said a 1306 was better for my application.
the 1304 Le Mans sump is a very shallow unit which won't accomodate the 351 crank throw.

So 1306 it was, but the photos now are totally different!

Cheers

Pete. · 07-05-07, 07:04 PM

Russ, what a bummer,

on face value it looks like they have stitched you up.
Have a look at this site they are a lot closer to home and may have something you can use. CAPA : SHM

Russ Noble · 07-05-07, 09:37 PM

Thanks Pete, I'll file that site away for future reference.

I've decided to cast up my own custom application. My mate Lim needs the same for his build too, so that's the best way to go now.

Cheers

Pete. · 07-06-07, 01:19 AM

Russ I'm sure there might be some more people on the Forum who may be interested in one.

Sandy · 07-06-07, 02:15 AM

Hmm, Pete you have the right idea, Russ, find out the cost for one :-)

Sandy

Russ Noble · 07-06-07, 02:50 AM

That's a possibility we are considering.

Please send US$500 with order and we'll put you on the waiting list.

Seriously though, with an item like that freight may well be the killer, but that could be overcome with the right setup.

Got to build our cars first....

Cheers

Big-Foot · 07-06-07, 08:39 AM

Russ - you have some responses to this issue on your Build Thread as well..

Lynn · 07-07-07, 01:48 PM

I noticed that ARE claims to have quite a few customers here: Who Uses ARE.

Perhaps some of those who use ARE products would like to know about the fine products, like those that Russ received, that their names are being associated with. Here are just a few of the ones I found with the help of google:
Lou Gigliotti LG Motorsports
John Powell john@powellmotorsport.com
Leighton Reese Leighton Reese

Russ Noble · 07-07-07, 04:00 PM

Lynn,

I'm quite sure ARE can make an excellent article and also that high profile guys in the US get a top notch product.

I am equally sure they knew this piece was a reject item and decided to offload it to some unknown sucker on the other side of the world!

The guys in question no doubt get the good stuff, and that's all that will concern them. I don't think my experiences will have any relevance for them.

Anyway, it's water under the bridge. Time to move along with the build. I'm sure as an additional cost and inconvenience this episode with the pan will pale into insignificance the first time I plant the '40 at high speed into the Armco!!

Cheers

Richard Timte · 07-07-07, 04:47 PM

Russ,

I got a sump from them, it was a custom 4 pickup that was cast a little deeper to accommodate my 401 ci Windsor. It fits like a glove, sorry to here of your problem, it took them like twice as long as they said but when it got here I was happy. I sanded and sanded and sanded, to get it smooth enough to polish though. Here is a picture of the unit.

Russ Noble · 07-07-07, 05:21 PM

Richard,

I think that just proves my point. TX is not that far from CA. You got a good one. NZ is on the otherside of the world.

The thing that hurts also, is that I paid US$270 for airfreight because at that stage I needed it to continue my build! Otherwise it can be up to 3 months by sea. Which is the way I get most stuff.

I suppose the upside is that for the extra $270 I found out 3 months early that it was unusable

Cheers

Jac Mac · 07-07-07, 05:50 PM

Russ,

Your thinking very clearly this morning, Lemon Juice all round last night was it ? Or are you just another year older & wiser!

Jac Mac

Russ Noble · 07-07-07, 06:11 PM

Older anyway Jac Mac

A great night was had by all, though Geoff has now lost his licence....... Got pinged by the cops going out to get more booze

"Greater love hath no man that he lay down his licence for a friend"

Hope your do was a good one too.

Cheers