ARE dry sumps
- Thread starter Russ Noble
- Start date
Jim, Mesa, Bill,
Have done as you have urged
My email to ARE:-
Hi guys,
You may remember early in the year I bought a 1306 from you.
I am not very happy about it. It is effectively unusable without a lot of remedial work.
Because of markings it had on it I am convinced you deliberately sent me a reject.
Also because of the time/distance/cost factor it is not practical to return it. This is why I think you chose to unload this on me to New Zealand..
I concluded therefore that any recompense was unlikely, but I didn’t want any of my GT40 Forum friends to get caught the same way so posted a warning in the “Consumer Watch” Section of that forum.
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/consumer-watch/22280-dry-sumps.html
There is also some discussion on my build thread from Post # 77 onwards
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/consumer-watch/22280-dry-sumps.htmlhttp://www.gt40s.com/forum/builder-log-forum/16138-kiwi-scratchbuilt-3.html
The guys there have urged me to draw the matter to your attention. The forum has been a big assistance to me generally so in deference to them, I send you this email.
I will publish this email on both threads, as I will any reply that I may receive.
Thank you,
Russ Noble
We'll see what happens.......
Cheers
Have done as you have urged
My email to ARE:-
Hi guys,
You may remember early in the year I bought a 1306 from you.
I am not very happy about it. It is effectively unusable without a lot of remedial work.
Because of markings it had on it I am convinced you deliberately sent me a reject.
Also because of the time/distance/cost factor it is not practical to return it. This is why I think you chose to unload this on me to New Zealand..
I concluded therefore that any recompense was unlikely, but I didn’t want any of my GT40 Forum friends to get caught the same way so posted a warning in the “Consumer Watch” Section of that forum.
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/consumer-watch/22280-dry-sumps.html
There is also some discussion on my build thread from Post # 77 onwards
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/consumer-watch/22280-dry-sumps.htmlhttp://www.gt40s.com/forum/builder-log-forum/16138-kiwi-scratchbuilt-3.html
The guys there have urged me to draw the matter to your attention. The forum has been a big assistance to me generally so in deference to them, I send you this email.
I will publish this email on both threads, as I will any reply that I may receive.
Thank you,
Russ Noble
We'll see what happens.......
Cheers
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Pat Buckley
GT40s Supporter
For the life of my I cannot understand why you have chosen to diss these guys before even giving them a chance to make it right.
What an ass.
What an ass.
Pat, that's a rather sanctimonious comment....
I am here in NZ. I think they deliberately stitched me. I admit it could have been a mistake on their part, but knowing it's ultimate destination was NZ they failed totally in their duty of reasonable care.
Time is against me. Are they going to immediately supply me with a good sump AND airfreight it (US$270) to me? I don't think so. Also to be considered is the cost of returning the faulty item.
I may be an ass. I'm also generally a conciliatory, easy going guy. I hold no grudge against ARE. One has to know when to cut ones losses. I am not bitter, I've put it behind me and I am already moving along in the process to cast my own. I don't have the time to stuff around. I only posted this to alert other buyers to possible problems with ARE. It is up to them to do their own research and draw their own conclusions. As you have.
Have a nice day.
I am here in NZ. I think they deliberately stitched me. I admit it could have been a mistake on their part, but knowing it's ultimate destination was NZ they failed totally in their duty of reasonable care.
Time is against me. Are they going to immediately supply me with a good sump AND airfreight it (US$270) to me? I don't think so. Also to be considered is the cost of returning the faulty item.
I may be an ass. I'm also generally a conciliatory, easy going guy. I hold no grudge against ARE. One has to know when to cut ones losses. I am not bitter, I've put it behind me and I am already moving along in the process to cast my own. I don't have the time to stuff around. I only posted this to alert other buyers to possible problems with ARE. It is up to them to do their own research and draw their own conclusions. As you have.
Have a nice day.
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Just received this reply from ARE, which goes some way to addressing the monetary side.
Here is their reply :-
Hi Russ, I am very sorry about the problems with your oil pan. I assure you we did not "un-load " a defective pan on you on purpose. You are clearly upset, and I do not have the time to answer the threads ect on your forum. I will, however refund your money if you return it. You can send it by slow boat, so it will not be expensive to ship. The people we list on our web site DO use our products, and have won many, many championships. The Chevy Corvette successes with our Dry Sumps may not be of too much interest to you. but the Ford Powered Panoz which won Le Mans (twice) has our Dry Sump on it also, as well as virtually every formula Ford Championship winning car in the world. I could list hundreds, but I am not going to do that. I have been in business for 33 years, and you can not survive in this business by screwing people. I am sorry, the miss-fit was not intentional.
Regards, Gary Armstrong PS..... please see to it that my reply and offer make it to your forum. Thanks.
However it wasn't particularly the money that was my major concern. It is the time frame now and the extra work involved to cast my own pan. Never the less I will return the ARE piece and graciously accept their refund.
Cheers,
Here is their reply :-
Hi Russ, I am very sorry about the problems with your oil pan. I assure you we did not "un-load " a defective pan on you on purpose. You are clearly upset, and I do not have the time to answer the threads ect on your forum. I will, however refund your money if you return it. You can send it by slow boat, so it will not be expensive to ship. The people we list on our web site DO use our products, and have won many, many championships. The Chevy Corvette successes with our Dry Sumps may not be of too much interest to you. but the Ford Powered Panoz which won Le Mans (twice) has our Dry Sump on it also, as well as virtually every formula Ford Championship winning car in the world. I could list hundreds, but I am not going to do that. I have been in business for 33 years, and you can not survive in this business by screwing people. I am sorry, the miss-fit was not intentional.
Regards, Gary Armstrong PS..... please see to it that my reply and offer make it to your forum. Thanks.
However it wasn't particularly the money that was my major concern. It is the time frame now and the extra work involved to cast my own pan. Never the less I will return the ARE piece and graciously accept their refund.
Cheers,
Pat Buckley
GT40s Supporter
Russ-
I'm not very sanctimonious at all -
You sure don't seem very easy going or concilatory - lambasting ARE without even giving them a chance to say word one in their defense is poor behaviour.
Why is it their fault you chose to order something from fifteen thousand miles away? Is a mistake made on their part worse because you live further away?
Cheers,
Pat
I was reminded of a guy who lived in Australia who bought a Harley on Ebay USA and got screwed - in his case he put the blame squarely on President Bush's shoulders..... hmmmm - is this a regional issue? LOL
I'm not very sanctimonious at all -
You sure don't seem very easy going or concilatory - lambasting ARE without even giving them a chance to say word one in their defense is poor behaviour.
Why is it their fault you chose to order something from fifteen thousand miles away? Is a mistake made on their part worse because you live further away?
Cheers,
Pat
I was reminded of a guy who lived in Australia who bought a Harley on Ebay USA and got screwed - in his case he put the blame squarely on President Bush's shoulders..... hmmmm - is this a regional issue? LOL
Pat Buckley
GT40s Supporter
Oh - I meant to say, I apologize for calling you an ass.
That really wasn't called for.
Pat
That really wasn't called for.
Pat
Cheers,
Pat,
I also live down under and been screwed over several times whether it be a Harley or parts I have ordered correctly and arrived incorrectly.All have come from USA.
Anything out of the UK,NZ etc the guys have been spot on.
Then again I guess Robert Logan might have known something.
You have a nice day.
Cheers.
I also live down under and been screwed over several times whether it be a Harley or parts I have ordered correctly and arrived incorrectly.All have come from USA.
Anything out of the UK,NZ etc the guys have been spot on.
Then again I guess Robert Logan might have known something.
You have a nice day.
Cheers.
Pat Buckley
GT40s Supporter
We have many different suppliers of all kinds of parts in the USA - some are great, some not.
I have found that if I shop based on price alone I usually don't get what I am looking for.
Perhaps you can do the same?
I suppose there isn't much of a choice of suppliers where you all come from?
It is nice living in a part of the world that actually produces stuff and offers a choice!
Then again, we don't make anything for Holdens - perhaps you can do a replica of a Holden Commodore? LOL. Just kidding, I wouldn't either.
Seems like there isn't a shortage off dumbasses where you all live though.
I have found that if I shop based on price alone I usually don't get what I am looking for.
Perhaps you can do the same?
I suppose there isn't much of a choice of suppliers where you all come from?
It is nice living in a part of the world that actually produces stuff and offers a choice!
Then again, we don't make anything for Holdens - perhaps you can do a replica of a Holden Commodore? LOL. Just kidding, I wouldn't either.
Seems like there isn't a shortage off dumbasses where you all live though.
Wow Pat!!
I can't agree with most of what you have written here.
Take it easy, no-one's trying to ruffle any feathers. Down here we tell it like it is, which is why Randy may have made his comment about my email. But it was to the point and unambiguous.
Are you trying to say that the ARE pan is a cheap piece that I bought on price? I'm sure ARE would love that!
You are right about choice of suppliers here though. With manufacturing we tend to go for high quality, high dollar, niche export markets as a 4m population is insufficient for a decent domestic base, and freight can be a killer on low value items.
We do produce and offer choice though, our strength is in producing food, and there is quite a bit of choice there. It is exported all round the world but you won't see much of it because of the protectionist tarrifs put in place by your politicians to protect your agricultural sector who can't compete on a level playing field! At least our govt doesn't put tarrifs on the stuff we get from the States. They probably don't want to discourage imports from the US as they realise fixing up the product will provide employment for kiwis!
Pat, there are heaps of guys down here build replicas of Bathurst Holden Commodores, they are a good handling, fast and iconic Aussie supercar.
Nothing dumbass about living in th best part of the world Pat! I see that as more than compensation for the problems that sometimes arise from buying stuff from the other side of the planet.
Sorry about the thread drift Ron, but those mindless comments needed to be addressed.......
Cheers
I can't agree with most of what you have written here.
Take it easy, no-one's trying to ruffle any feathers. Down here we tell it like it is, which is why Randy may have made his comment about my email. But it was to the point and unambiguous.
Are you trying to say that the ARE pan is a cheap piece that I bought on price? I'm sure ARE would love that!
You are right about choice of suppliers here though. With manufacturing we tend to go for high quality, high dollar, niche export markets as a 4m population is insufficient for a decent domestic base, and freight can be a killer on low value items.
We do produce and offer choice though, our strength is in producing food, and there is quite a bit of choice there. It is exported all round the world but you won't see much of it because of the protectionist tarrifs put in place by your politicians to protect your agricultural sector who can't compete on a level playing field! At least our govt doesn't put tarrifs on the stuff we get from the States. They probably don't want to discourage imports from the US as they realise fixing up the product will provide employment for kiwis!
Pat, there are heaps of guys down here build replicas of Bathurst Holden Commodores, they are a good handling, fast and iconic Aussie supercar.
Nothing dumbass about living in th best part of the world Pat! I see that as more than compensation for the problems that sometimes arise from buying stuff from the other side of the planet.
Sorry about the thread drift Ron, but those mindless comments needed to be addressed.......
Cheers
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WOW, Holy politics Batman ! 
Seriously though, How many agree it would be easier to fix the current pan that Ross has, than to cast a new one. Or from looking at Ross' build thread it appears with his obvious talents he could easily fabricate a pan from scratch using some .060' or .080' sheet and heavy alum. extrusions for the pan rails and seal ends.
:lurker:
:chug:
Best,
S
Seriously though, How many agree it would be easier to fix the current pan that Ross has, than to cast a new one. Or from looking at Ross' build thread it appears with his obvious talents he could easily fabricate a pan from scratch using some .060' or .080' sheet and heavy alum. extrusions for the pan rails and seal ends.
:lurker:
:chug:
Best,
S
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Russ, they can't play Rugby either.:
:Lynn Larsen
Lynn Larsen
Russ,
Many of those who voiced indignation that you would have received a part that was so poorly made were Americans. That would seem to be a bit out of character for citizens of a whole country with poor quality control, doesn't it? For not wanting to ruffle feathers, coloring a whole nation with such a broad stroke seem a rather odd thing to do. Most who are concerned with the effect that they have on others are a bit more measured with the words they use.
Regards,
Lynn
Many of those who voiced indignation that you would have received a part that was so poorly made were Americans. That would seem to be a bit out of character for citizens of a whole country with poor quality control, doesn't it? For not wanting to ruffle feathers, coloring a whole nation with such a broad stroke seem a rather odd thing to do. Most who are concerned with the effect that they have on others are a bit more measured with the words they use.
Regards,
Lynn
Pat Buckley
GT40s Supporter
Thanks Lynn -
You put it well. I am not much of a diplomat.
I am surprised that the Antipodeans would dare even mention that jerk Logan.....it figures that it was Harley guy who did.
Pat
You put it well. I am not much of a diplomat.
I am surprised that the Antipodeans would dare even mention that jerk Logan.....it figures that it was Harley guy who did.
Pat
Lynn,
With respect, I think you are gunning for the wrong guy here.
I didn't bring up the regional issue, and if you want to talk about measured responses, I didn't use words like "ass" and "dumbass" to describe anyone. I stick to plain facts to make my case.
Cheers
With respect, I think you are gunning for the wrong guy here.
I didn't bring up the regional issue, and if you want to talk about measured responses, I didn't use words like "ass" and "dumbass" to describe anyone. I stick to plain facts to make my case.
Cheers
I think China is a good deal closer to NZ than is USA.
Might be a better place to source parts?
Let's not get heritage of countries involved...
Seriously though - there was really nothing in the photos that you supplied that showed me anything at all insurmountable.
Particularly when you talk of casting your own piece...
Knowing just a tad bit about the diecast and sandcasting industry, I think your setup time for machining operations alone would be far more complex than addressing all of the issues you have with the ARE unit.
Of course I'm using that ever fallable American logic...
Best wishes in your endeavors - I remain impressed by your many accomplishments so far...
Might be a better place to source parts?
Let's not get heritage of countries involved...
Seriously though - there was really nothing in the photos that you supplied that showed me anything at all insurmountable.
Particularly when you talk of casting your own piece...
Knowing just a tad bit about the diecast and sandcasting industry, I think your setup time for machining operations alone would be far more complex than addressing all of the issues you have with the ARE unit.
Of course I'm using that ever fallable American logic...
Best wishes in your endeavors - I remain impressed by your many accomplishments so far...
Randy,
We're back on thread again! Great stuff!
Casting our own was our initial choice but when I saw the ARE stuff I decided to spend the not inconsiderable dollars on one of their nice units. We know what happened there.... Yes it could be fixed but at some stage it becomes a fine line between repairing and starting again. We think it will make sense now to cast our own and knock out a few extras as well.
Cheers
We're back on thread again! Great stuff!
Casting our own was our initial choice but when I saw the ARE stuff I decided to spend the not inconsiderable dollars on one of their nice units. We know what happened there.... Yes it could be fixed but at some stage it becomes a fine line between repairing and starting again. We think it will make sense now to cast our own and knock out a few extras as well.
Cheers
