Planning a future ERA replica build...opinions plz

[TravisM]

Hello,
I just joined this forum and I must say, I am thoroughly impressed! I have already learned a lot about GT40's just reading a few articles... Sorry guys, but I am an import car fan and drive a Honda Prelude... for now... Anyways, I was driving into Hooters this weekend when I saw a GT40 parked in the lot... OH MY GOD!!! I almost took a slam in my pants right there... I was immediately hooked... So this is how my thoughts proceeded... I am starting my own car audio and preformance shop when I get out of college. I plan on buying an ERA kit and writing it off on my business expenditure tax breaks (because I am using it as a promo-type car to bring people to my shop)...

After thinking about that, I figured I should add something of my own to the car... Being a big import kid (haha...) I know a good deal about turbos and the potential they unlock from an engine... I thought about turbo applied to large engines and started reading up... this is where the kilo-horses start rolling and made me think about the GT40... I want to use a small 260 or 289 and twin turbocharge it... I would not apply too much boost so small turbos could be used... I could even use turbos small enough to spool at very very low rpms... that would add up to some big power pretty low in the rpm band...

I did read another post similar to this one, and I am not talking about a super whp beast here... A small engine = lightweight... so my GT would be very light and still have 350-400 whp...

Also, I have been communicating with the folks at ERA... they said that they could modify their body so I could fit a new RBT 6-spd from the new GT40 into their replica...

What do yall think about all this? Lightweight, fairly high whp, 6-spd... This is still just an idea so I want everyones opinions and any helpfull ideas... I want this to be a big show off, over the top kind of car, but also fun to drive without fearing the accelerator pedal...

Thank you all!

[JOSEPH]

Hi Travis,
If the GT-40 you saw at Hooter's was blue and was near Kenasaw it was my CAV. You must have a lot of money if you want an ERA and want to waite for years to get your car. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[JOSEPH]

OOPS, I sent the wrong colored car that you saw.

[JOSEPH]

I think you saw the solid blue one. This is it. Joe

[JOSEPH]

The #6 car that I sent first IS a BIG SHOW OFF!!! Joseph [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Mark Worthington]

Travis, I also have unholy thoughts about installing twin turbos on my GT40 someday...I like the Garrett GTB35s. Do a search on the forum...you'll find a few threads on the topic. It sounds like you realize there is VERY little room in the engine bay for turbos and intercoolers. Even if you used an aluminum block, the weight of the engine with turbos would exceed the weight of a NA iron block. There will be lots of custom plumbing for the intercoolers and for the manifolds and dumps. Heat management will be a major issue, not only for the engine, but also for the engine bay. And you damn well better use the transaxle out of a Ford GT because nothing else will last too long.

Given the cost of the ERA kit, the transaxle (probably $20k right there), the engine ($15k), the turbos and intercoolers ($5,000), and all the custom fab work ($15k?) I think you're looking at an honest $150,000 to get it done right. At that point you're into Ford GT territory. That's also an extremely tall financial order for someone right out of college, starting a business, regardless of any tax breaks you may be able to pull off. Unless, of course, you're already independantly wealthy.

While I admire your enthusiasm, I suggest you set your goals a little more realistically.

[Kalun D]

Turbos are cool, but they don't go with this car. One of the neatest things about the look of this car is looking down in the back window and seeing those 8 stacks looking up at you. Another part of "the look" is the bundle of snakes. Turbo would ruin that look.

And this car is crowded, why do you think the new GT is 10 percent larger? Turbos have been done but it's a major hassle, you can get more than enough HP out of a normal aspirated motor.

Six speeds are a neat idea but in the US they are just a marketing gimmick. Unless you're at the salt flats you'll never ring it out. They might apply in Germany with the autobahn. Sometimes they are geared to where you're not really getting more gear range, just closer together ratios, in other words you spend more time shifting, which is more applicable to a smaller, short powerband motor than what you usually find in a GT40.

All that said you should of course do whatever you want, just take a close look at what's been done before you jump in.

[Murray Cowley]

WOW !! Is that NICE or what?
Absolutely beautiful. Thanks for the pics, this one your's Kalun_D?

Cheers
Murray

[Ron Earp]

Second what Kalun said - if you can't get 400 rwhp from a SB Ford you ain't trying. Your idea, to twin turbocharge the car, is more like 600 rwhp. Heck, I'm now up to 311 rwhp from my 2.2L 4 banger with more to come!

[Murray Cowley]

This may be put under a seperate post, but I think to twin turbocharge in the compartment of a GT 40 will spoil the asthetic look of the beast, it may give a lot of power but will look cluttered and untidy. As well as all the heat problems. My 320 is a standard engine, just where do you start to get better HP, I was thinking of ally heads, expensive or what? Rollers etc. Advice anyone please.
Murray
KVA in build, standard 302

[John]

Welcome to the club. I also do not yet have a GT40, but plan on beginning a build within the next 4 or 5 years. There is a lot of money involved in building a nice one, and the ERA kit is about the most expensive out there.

I also am hooked on boost and thought about putting turbos in the GT40. It may have been my post you read! I understood that a naturally aspirated engine would produce more than enough power in such a light car... but was thinking more about the "cool factor." Aside from appearances, some of the concerns I couldn't really get around are these...
1. because the space is pretty tight, you're going to have a bear of a time plumbing them in there.
2. fiberglass doesn't handle heat that well, and turbos put out a lot of heat. (ceramic coating is possible, but adds more $$).
3. intercooling - unless you want to duct it all the way to the front of the car (read: extreme turbo lag and low boost), you can't fit in a single intercooler. And, there is almost no space to mount dual intercoolers. And, even if you did, air exchange under the rear bonnet is at a premium, so they would heat soak in no time. Also, running turbos pretty much requires a separate oil cooler and if you've got the intercoolers back there you're very tight on space.

So, I decided that when I do a twin-turbo V8 project it will go into my old Camaro. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Good luck. If you do decide to go through with it, I'd be interested in hearing about your progress.

Oh yes,... I wouldn't really say I'm an "import guy," but right now my daily driver is a 1990 Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo. The project car is a '68 Camaro... turbocharged someday. Love those turbos! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

John

[Mike Dozier]

I think the crossover exhaust of the GT40 is mandatory
to meet the true "spirit" of the original.
So installing turbos kinda leads you into the "modern"
day look, which is fine for those wanting that.

Big HP numbers can easily be wrung out on the SBF,
especially if you stick in a stroker Windsor.
With modern heads, roller cams, fuel injection, etc...
these guys are doing 600 streetable hp without breaking a sweat. And the motor looks just like it come off the track at Lemans!

MikeD

[Howard Jones]

You want a LOT of power, build a 351 as large as it will go with 10 to 1 CR and a good hot solid cam, AFR heads and a 850 holly and I bet you'll have more than you can handle. Oh.... and a $20,000 plus drive train.

[Chuck]

I guess I'll venture that you could do a turbo in our cars in a classic way. Of course I'm thinking the old 935/956 single turbo setup where the turbo is essentially right at the end of a long exhaust set up and pressurizes the entire intake. You could put the turbo at the end of the snakes right below the muffler grille and have a clean air intake through a MkIV style brake vent.

Estimated lag would be in minutes. I've heard vintage 935 drivers curse the lag on those cars and I suspect the single turbo 956's are worse. I imagine you find yourself braking to slow down and tromping the gas to build boost to exit the corner (at the same time). Might be doable on a track where you know the entry and exit of the corners but would certainly blow on the street (tongue in cheek).

I think the messages above clearly reflect the best ideas. I especially like the idea of a stroked 351W to the 427 level. Seems like cheap dependable and tractable power and little to no one-off fabrication.

One last thing, if your concerned about turbo lag, its nothing compared to the "order lag" that you'll find with an ERA GT. I think they are going full bore right now catching up on old orders while new ones still come in. Also everytime I speak with them, they're building another car for a customer who wants them to assemble too and I suspect these slow them down a little more too.

Chuck
ERA GT 2064

[Lynn]

Travis,

Like someone said, if you can't get 400HP out of a SBF, you ain't trying. If you want the ultimate light SBF, then you need to get a Dart aluminum SBF block. You can get a standard 8.2" deck with either 4.000" or 4.125" bores. I am using an iron one with 4.125" bore and with a very mild 3.25" stroke crank this will give you 347ci. With some off the shelf AFR heads and a mild-moderate cam that will sound good you should be able to get in the mid to upper 400s with no problem. The whole motor shouldn't weigh much over 250 lbs. If you use the right rotating assembly if should turn 7K RPM easily and with the right gearing, go fast enough to make you start wearing Depends. If you put the kind of turbos you talked about on it (2 smallish) you might want to install a portable defibrillator in it.

Lynn

[TravisM]

Haha... Alright guys, I got pretty much what i expected and I think you all are right... Someone said to slow down and look around before I jump into building one... That is exactly what Im doing and will be doing for the next four years... Thanks in advance for the learning oppourtunities guys! Even though I do want some wow effect because it will be a promo car, I think the fact that it is a GT40 is plenty of WOW (no snails necesary)... I will go with a NA SBF and I guess I will shoot for the mid 400's... is that a realistic hp # if I want it to be streetable but still on the upper side of powerful? Also, yes I did see the 40 at kennesaw's hooters... congrats man that thing is rockin'! I also know the ERA kit is expensive but didnt know it had a long line... What other kits would yall suggest? I have heard a lot from people with CAV's... do these come as ready to finnish as ERA's? Thank you all for your info and help, Travis.

One other thing... the only GT40 i have seen up close so far has had a normal cylindrical air filter... those stacks are individual TB's right? and do they have filters built in or what? Im guessing they are readilly availabele form all SBF's right? once again... sorry im a newb to domestics... Thanks! Travis.

[jimbo]

Lynn, I think you are totally on the money. Thumbnail calculations show my 302 will probably make 375-426 hp- this is a LOT of power in a 2400lb car, which is a realistic weight for a steel monocoque car. This will be the fastest thing I've ever driven by a long shot. Enough to scare me, and yes as a physician I am thinking about the portable defibrillator, except who's going to hold the paddles...
I always find it interesting that the big-block cars were faster than the small-block cars back in the racing days, but not THAT much faster. The idea of the big-block cars was to reduce engine stress so they could run a 24hr race without engine failure, not necessarily to go faster. As we all know, it turned out that the small-block engines were quite capable of it too, once sorted out, and went nearly as quickly. The lap times are not all that different.
I think the way to build a GT40 that's even faster than average is to get weight out. This was done in some of the Mark V cars, two of which had aluminum tubs and one of which had a steel tub lightened with holes. And the bodywork was carbon/Kevlar instead of E-glass. I have compared the weight of a C/K GT40 nose clip to my own (regular E-glass and polyester) and the weight difference is dramatic. But, realistically, how fast do you need to go? Any GT40 is so much faster than anything most of us have ever driven that over 450hp you had better have your life insurance paid up.
Removing weight isn't nearly as sexy as building a turbo motor for a GT40, but it is much more in keeping with the vintage spirit of the cars, and it's a great way to go fast. In line with this idea, I find that the entire GT40 project is lightening my wallet to the extent that I expect to weigh about five pounds when I finally sit in the car. I may have to wear lead weights in my pockets like the jockeys do. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Kalun D]

"Absolutely beautiful. Thanks for the pics, this one your's Kalun_D?"

The small pic is from TWM's site. I purchased this set up for mine, think it's still on sale.

The large pic is off Roaring Forties site.