Re: Ford small blocks 101
Good advice, Kalun.
Good advice, Kalun.
Planning a future ERA replica build...opinions plz
- Thread starter TravisM
- Start date
Re: Ford small blocks 101
A friend of mine just turned me onto this place...
www.revolutionaryperformance.com
He bought a small block Chevy from them and said it was very well built and with top notch parts. They do Ford short blocks as well.
John
A friend of mine just turned me onto this place...
www.revolutionaryperformance.com
He bought a small block Chevy from them and said it was very well built and with top notch parts. They do Ford short blocks as well.
John
Hey guys how it going, im new on here and just did a search for barry simmons since he is my dentist and kinda family friend. He had showed me his car collection and one of his cars was the GT40 of course which was my fav. just did a quick search online for his name and this car and came up with this. I was wondering if he ever gets on here or not?
You can make a lot of HP with the 302 or the 351. You can get a lot of "WOW" using a DART aluminum block, 11:1 compression pistons, a really hot roller cam, and either 8-stack injection or Webers. The bundle-of-snakes really sets the car off from anything else on the road.
You can make it Gulf (15" wide rear tires) or normal; right hand drive, etc.
Paint it Gulf colors and you will have a car that stops people in their tracks.
Bill D
You can make it Gulf (15" wide rear tires) or normal; right hand drive, etc.
Paint it Gulf colors and you will have a car that stops people in their tracks.
Bill D
Last edited:
Travis, it looks like you and I are cast from the same mold. I have asked many of the same questions you are asking. For a discussion related to the use of superchargers, check out this thread (there is even a reply from the owner of the ERA factory stating that his kit has room for a supercharger, but there seems to be more room for turbos):
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17970
For a review of the option of dry sumping, check out this thread:
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18094
Like you, I came to the same conclusion--N/A SBF with a wet sump oiling system. However, not all SBF blocks are the same. It's not difficult to wring 400-450 out of the SBF with a carb, but getting it to hold together is another matter. Some of the more mondo 5.0 builds have had the block literally split into 2 halves. FRPP sells a 302 racing block (the R-302) and of course there are other manufacturers making SBF blocks, like Dart, who makes a good aluminum block. However, one of my GT40 contacts mentioned that Ford switched to the iron block for the supercharged 4.6 modulator motor for good reason--iron blocks seem to be stronger and hold together better with high power levels.
One of the forum members made what I consider a good suggestion--forego the mondo motor build and use the $$ to get a good LSD transaxle. I am going to build my SBF into what is called a "Small port Boss 302"--if you are interested in what that entails, check out this thread:
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18047
Good luck--it looks like you and I are on the same schedule, too. I can't order my kit for a few years, so I'm building the motor right now and hope to have the motor/transaxle ready to drop into the kit once I order it.
The forum has a section dedicated to builds--that doesn't mean just the kits, so I plan on documenting the build as I proceed with the motor. I am waiting to hear back from Dart regarding the oiling system requirments before I spend what amounts to a huge chunk of change for one of their alloy blocks. On the SBF, what is referred to as a "priority oiling system" (prioritizing oil delivery to the main bearings) is, IMHO, more important than the alloy block. If Dart requires an external oil pump to provide the "priority oiling system", then I'll go with FRPP's R-302 or the new, soon to be released Boss 302 block.
Lots of options--enjoy, and don't be afraid to post questions. This forum has the most helpful membership I've found on the net so far!
Doug
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17970
For a review of the option of dry sumping, check out this thread:
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18094
Like you, I came to the same conclusion--N/A SBF with a wet sump oiling system. However, not all SBF blocks are the same. It's not difficult to wring 400-450 out of the SBF with a carb, but getting it to hold together is another matter. Some of the more mondo 5.0 builds have had the block literally split into 2 halves. FRPP sells a 302 racing block (the R-302) and of course there are other manufacturers making SBF blocks, like Dart, who makes a good aluminum block. However, one of my GT40 contacts mentioned that Ford switched to the iron block for the supercharged 4.6 modulator motor for good reason--iron blocks seem to be stronger and hold together better with high power levels.
One of the forum members made what I consider a good suggestion--forego the mondo motor build and use the $$ to get a good LSD transaxle. I am going to build my SBF into what is called a "Small port Boss 302"--if you are interested in what that entails, check out this thread:
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18047
Good luck--it looks like you and I are on the same schedule, too. I can't order my kit for a few years, so I'm building the motor right now and hope to have the motor/transaxle ready to drop into the kit once I order it.
The forum has a section dedicated to builds--that doesn't mean just the kits, so I plan on documenting the build as I proceed with the motor. I am waiting to hear back from Dart regarding the oiling system requirments before I spend what amounts to a huge chunk of change for one of their alloy blocks. On the SBF, what is referred to as a "priority oiling system" (prioritizing oil delivery to the main bearings) is, IMHO, more important than the alloy block. If Dart requires an external oil pump to provide the "priority oiling system", then I'll go with FRPP's R-302 or the new, soon to be released Boss 302 block.
Lots of options--enjoy, and don't be afraid to post questions. This forum has the most helpful membership I've found on the net so far!
Doug
make haste slowly
The 351 Windsor was built in Windsor Ontario, just across the lake from Detroit. The W designation was to differentiate it from the 351 Cleveland which came out about the same time. The 351W was Ford’s effort to improve on the 289/302 in street applications. The 351C was a whole different animal, and was targeted at NASCAR.
The 351W (4.0”x 3.50”) is dimensionally similar to a stroked 289 (4.00”x 2.87”) with the same bore spacing. Biggest differences apart from stroke were stouter main bearings and better heads. In stock configuration they made 55 more hp (290 @ 4800 rpm) and only weighed 65 lbs more. Ford’s Muscle Parts book shows how to add 107 hp just by adding off the shelf ford parts. 397 hp with nothing fancier than a 600 CFM C8AZ-9510-AD carb on a Ford hi-riser manifold gives you an idea of the engine’s potential.
As far as horsepower goes, the old saying that the only thing more important than cubic inches is cubic dollars is pretty close to reality. What horsepower gets you is acceleration and top speed. With 450+ hp you can get a barn door to go 100 mph in under 8 seconds. But before you drive a car, any car, faster than about 140 mph, you’d better be sure your tires are faultless and your suspension/aerodynamics are set up for high speeds. Otherwise, what happens is the front end gets light, the driver over-corrects as the car starts drifting, and very, very bad things come to pass that are survivable only if you’ve got a full roll cage, fuel cells, and a five point restraint.
My suggestion is to decide what you want your car to do and then select the engine. Put the money you save into a killer paint job and safety features like fuel cells, a Halon fire suppression system , and a race-quality helmet. It may not be as sexy as a 500 hp tricked out mill, but I watched a man burn to death in a street car pushed way beyond it’s design limits, and sexy became instantly irrelevant. For most of us, this is a hobby, not something to risk your life on, so if a 5 lb per hp bomb is what you want, by all means go for it, but please, build it safe and learn how to drive fast while you build it.
Just the two cents of a cautious old phart who could be wrong.
The 351 Windsor was built in Windsor Ontario, just across the lake from Detroit. The W designation was to differentiate it from the 351 Cleveland which came out about the same time. The 351W was Ford’s effort to improve on the 289/302 in street applications. The 351C was a whole different animal, and was targeted at NASCAR.
The 351W (4.0”x 3.50”) is dimensionally similar to a stroked 289 (4.00”x 2.87”) with the same bore spacing. Biggest differences apart from stroke were stouter main bearings and better heads. In stock configuration they made 55 more hp (290 @ 4800 rpm) and only weighed 65 lbs more. Ford’s Muscle Parts book shows how to add 107 hp just by adding off the shelf ford parts. 397 hp with nothing fancier than a 600 CFM C8AZ-9510-AD carb on a Ford hi-riser manifold gives you an idea of the engine’s potential.
As far as horsepower goes, the old saying that the only thing more important than cubic inches is cubic dollars is pretty close to reality. What horsepower gets you is acceleration and top speed. With 450+ hp you can get a barn door to go 100 mph in under 8 seconds. But before you drive a car, any car, faster than about 140 mph, you’d better be sure your tires are faultless and your suspension/aerodynamics are set up for high speeds. Otherwise, what happens is the front end gets light, the driver over-corrects as the car starts drifting, and very, very bad things come to pass that are survivable only if you’ve got a full roll cage, fuel cells, and a five point restraint.
My suggestion is to decide what you want your car to do and then select the engine. Put the money you save into a killer paint job and safety features like fuel cells, a Halon fire suppression system , and a race-quality helmet. It may not be as sexy as a 500 hp tricked out mill, but I watched a man burn to death in a street car pushed way beyond it’s design limits, and sexy became instantly irrelevant. For most of us, this is a hobby, not something to risk your life on, so if a 5 lb per hp bomb is what you want, by all means go for it, but please, build it safe and learn how to drive fast while you build it.
Just the two cents of a cautious old phart who could be wrong.
