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GT40 Tech - Engines/Induction/Exhaust Motors and engine related - right here!

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Old 30th January 2018, 07:45 PM   #21
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Re: Coyote or SBF

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Originally Posted by gt40rick View Post
Tom - My exhaust was supplied by RCR but I had to modify the 2 rear tubes to have sufficient clearance from the rear deck. I have to weld all of the joints together so when I do that I can add the slip joints. My intake has 58mm throttle bodies instead of the 52mm bodies usually mounted to the intake. My engine is built to live at 7,500 so I needed larger TB's to provide air at high RPM's, HP starts dropping off from 625hp @ 7,500 to 575hp @ 8,000 rpm.
Rick, surprised to see it didn't all fit under your bonnet. Mine fits just fine and the tightest clearance is about 3/4-1" to the back deck area. No heat issues using the heat barrier I applied.

You're gonna love the sound of those trumpets when they start to sing about 4500 rpms...intoxicating!

Definitely go slip joints with the potential of that motor. That ECU needs accurate O2 data to run right.
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Old 30th January 2018, 09:09 PM   #22
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Re: Coyote or SBF

I love the opinions and the passion for these cars. I love the GT40 or I wouldn’t spend every night working on it and every moment (when not working or spending time with my wife and family) thinking about it.

My heart says SBF, but the out of the box HP without going internal in the engine is tempting. There is a build log here (Jason’s GT40) with a coyote which is a piece of art.

I’m actually now leaning SBF and I think it was the comment “kit car” that has swayed me towards going that way.

I’m a ways away from motor selection so keep the opinions coming!
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Old 30th January 2018, 09:55 PM   #23
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Re: Coyote or SBF

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Originally Posted by Norcoastal View Post
I’m actually now leaning SBF and I think it was the comment “kit car” that has swayed me towards going that way
I will continue my long standing tradition of saying things that while true, make people feel uncomfortable and sometimes hostile

Unless you are starting with a car that shares a significant portion of it's design with the original i.e. Gelscoe, SPF, or some of the handbuilt from original plan cars some of the very talented members on this forum have taken on, worrying about a Coyote conveying the "kit car" label seems inconsequential. Your car car is going to be labeled a kit car. For as close to original as the SPF cars are, they are constantly labeled kit cars by the entire car community and by those that should know better. If you are building an Active Power car or any other brand not mentioned above, having an SBF vs a Coyote will not change a damn thing regarding what people think about the car nor what the resale value will ever be. Build what YOU want!
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Old 30th January 2018, 11:12 PM   #24
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Re: Coyote or SBF

I am building an Active Power car and I’ll end up deciding what I feel is best for me, but hearing all these opinions are interesting and educational. I sincerely appreciate the opinions of those on this forum, controversial as they may be, but help me with my build.
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Old 31st January 2018, 07:41 PM   #25
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Re: Coyote or SBF

Active Power is less than an hour from me and I was going to give them a call and take a look. I know they use Corvette C5/C6 suspension. And RCR uses total custom-made suspension parts. So I guess both are technically kit cars and not continuation cars like from Superformance. But I still believe that a SBF with either Webers or even a regular intake with a Holley would be acceptable. The carb pan also helps with the look and helps keep junk away from the fuel system whichever way you go.
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Old 31st January 2018, 08:00 PM   #26
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Re: Coyote or SBF

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Active Power is less than an hour from me and I was going to give them a call and take a look. I know they use Corvette C5/C6 suspension. And RCR uses total custom-made suspension parts. So I guess both are technically kit cars and not continuation cars like from Superformance. But I still believe that a SBF with either Webers or even a regular intake with a Holley would be acceptable. The carb pan also helps with the look and helps keep junk away from the fuel system whichever way you go.
I’m doing a “budget” build and I’m not looking for the best replica costing $200,000.

Active has a very nice chassis and the c5 suspension is readily available at a reasonable price.

I’m in no hurry to finish this car. I’m enjoying the process.

When I get to the place where I need an engine, I guess I’ll do what best serves me at the time.

There is no real answer to my question and I knew that when asking. I am very interested in everyone’s opinion. I find that the most valuable of all.
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Old 31st January 2018, 09:24 PM   #27
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Re: Coyote or SBF

If I wanted the performance and convenience of a modern power plant then I might consider an LS. I am thinking they are dimensionally smaller than the Coyote and have much more availability and thus lower cost.
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Old 31st January 2018, 10:19 PM   #28
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Re: Coyote or SBF

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If I wanted the performance and convenience of a modern power plant then I might consider an LS. I am thinking they are dimensionally smaller than the Coyote and have much more availability and thus lower cost.
I’ve been a bow tie guy all my life and this is my first journey into Ford, but even me as a Chevy guy thinks that putting a Chevy motor into a gt40 is too controversial of an idea.
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Old 31st January 2018, 10:42 PM   #29
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Re: Coyote or SBF

That's been my dilema. I've been a GM/Chevy guy all my life. From a 1967 SS Impala to Camaros, 3 Chevy trucks, etc. I think I would be crucified if I showed up with a GT40 with an LS engine in the back.

That said, you can get almost 600hp without batting an eye in these engines with a good cam and heads. It's almost stupid power for the money. AND, they make an 8 stack for them that looks like Webers. Is that crazy or what????

Chevy GM LS7 Downdraft EFI Stack Intake Manifold System Satin | eBay
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Old 31st January 2018, 10:58 PM   #30
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Re: Coyote or SBF

My only comment is that all the effort to maintain some semblance of the original however faithful that is, will be for naught when without fail, the vast majority of those you encounter will begin the conversation with these words...

"Is that a kit car???"

You after carefully and in great detail trying to explain the nuances of a non-original GT40 to some half interested neophyte, will begin to question the dogma and associated costs that drives the originality debate.
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Old 1st February 2018, 09:29 AM   #31
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Re: Coyote or SBF

I hear you on that. But a simple "An original is worth millions, what do you think?" should do. That was the whole point behind kit/continuation cars. Even Superformance can't say they are an original car.

But the cars here are a far cry from the fiberglass bodies, Kellison and Avenger, that were slapped on VW pans back in the 70's.

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Old 1st February 2018, 09:36 AM   #32
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Re: Coyote or SBF

Tom - The headers were made to replicate the Mark II exhaust, if the tubes running horizontal to the valve covers were 2" lower the headers would have fit perfectly under the rear deck. I had to do the modifications to the body and exhaust to accommodate the headers but in the end I am okay with it.
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Old 3rd February 2018, 10:46 AM   #33
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Re: Coyote or SBF

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Originally Posted by 70gsconvt View Post
I hear you on that. But a simple "An original is worth millions, what do you think?" should do. That was the whole point behind kit/continuation cars. Even Superformance can't say they are an original car.

But the cars here are a far cry from the fiberglass bodies, Kellison and Avenger, that were slapped on VW pans back in the 70's.
I think that’s why I was leaning Coyote. Not only is this chassis designed for that engine, but because no matter how hard anyone tries (even superperformance) it will still be labeled a kit car.

I love the design of the gt40. I think it’s the most beautiful car design ever built. I believe that today’s super cars all bow to the gt40. I want the beauty, styling and handling of the gt40. I’m not hung up on originality; as I said before, my car will have modern suspension, modern brakes, modern transaxle, modern cooling and ac, modern steering and chassis. How will the engine change the fact that it’s not a modern version of a 60’s super car?
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Old 3rd February 2018, 01:31 PM   #34
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Re: Coyote or SBF

Steve,
It all boils down to it's your car. Build it for yourself (my philosophy), to enjoy, to impress yourself, and NOT everyone else. IMO, so many buy cars to impress others and deep inside the passion is not/was not there, so they eventually lose interest and the car sits or gets sold off.

I can say that after 15 yrs, my passion for my Cobra has moved on and transferred over to the GT-40. However, I built (and painted) both cars for my personal enjoyment and could care less what others think.

I think the only clue that a Coyote may not be for you was that you mentioned earlier it was a "budget build". There is plenty of hidden costs in building these cars, from tools, to hardware, to everything in between. I believe a modern engine, transaxle, and the modifications that go with that build will cost you more in the end. I went with a blend of modern electronics/fuel injection with an older SBF/ZF transaxle. It impresses me!
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Old 4th February 2018, 09:24 PM   #35
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Re: Coyote or SBF

I bought and then built mine so I would have something to take pictures of. My camera broke so it's time to move on
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Old 4th February 2018, 10:07 PM   #36
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Re: Coyote or SBF

Probably straying a little here but I must say that I find this subject quite absurd/Interesting at times..
The general consensus seems to be-
You need to be true to brand but it’s acceptable to have a space frame of some description, and possibly a fibreglass body with suspension from another maker. But if you stray from the Ford powerplant then you have possibly committed some atrocity.
I have an AC Cobra replica which has a blown LS fitted that has been dressed somewhat ‘Old School’ style.
It doesn’t look like the LS you would see in a Corvette etc with the crappy looking plastic intake and the like.
For a bit of a laugh I took it to the All Ford day in Geelong ‘OZ’ and left the hood open to see the reaction.
Bear in mind.. The only ford part on this car is the Handbrake which is from a Ford Escort.
It has 428 Cobra badges on the fender..
I had so many people look at the badge and say “wow”look at that 428.
I then realised that most people couldn’t give a fat rats about what was in there as long as it sounded good and looked awesome.
In conclusion IMO build whatever fits what it is you and your budget can cope with because if you try and please everyone then you will fail miserably.
Why did I use the LS you may ask?
In OZ we have to pass very strict emission and noise regulations therefore the Windsor wasn’t going to cut it and the modular wasn’t going to fit without major surgery.
The LS was the same dimensions as the Windsor and therefore fitted perfectly.
Passed emissions and noise... Just.
Makes horsepower with just about anything you throw at it relatively cheaply..
It makes me proud of what I have built when I look at it and smile like an idiot every time I drive it therefore Job done !!
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Old 5th February 2018, 11:56 AM   #37
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Re: Coyote or SBF

Sounds like a great car. And this kind of goes back to one of my earlier posts when I showed an Weber style EFI for an LS-series engine. Don't mount the coil packs on the valve covers and for the casual observer, it looks like it should. And you can make a lot of power very easily with an LS engine.

But for me, I like to tinker and work on engines so I'd probably do a 408 windsor engine.
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Old 5th February 2018, 12:47 PM   #38
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Re: Coyote or SBF

Steve
IMO you have summed it perfectly and that is one of the reasons I enjoy this forum so much, there IS a space for every GT40 builder on this forum. I lurked on this forum for months before I finally made the commitment to buy a proto-type MKI body from CAV in Cape Town. I started off with a 351 Cleveland core and have bought a used Coyote Racing engine, what swung me, my budget and opinions/advise/discussions like this. I was lucky with the body, once in a life time price, but needs a LOT of work, I was lucky with the engine, once in a lifetime price. I will get to it and do it the way I want it, if someone does not like my work/choice, whatever, that,s fine, good advise (and there is plenty on this forum) is always appreciated. I can't afford a ZF box so I will have to lighten on the loud pedal and fit an Audi 016 box. My advise/opinion do what works for you, impress yourself, satisfy your need and take heed to the solid technical advise that you get for free on this forum. My need/satisfaction/drive is the research and fabrication, KEEP ON BUILDING my 2cents worth
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Old 5th February 2018, 08:01 PM   #39
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Re: Coyote or SBF

Thanks for all those last three opinions and all the opinions so far. I agree that the casual observer will never know the difference and I WILL build what I want. My question at the onset of this post wasn’t what people thought at shows or events, I was interested in what GT40 replica owners thought. I respect anyone who builds these type of projects and there are no lack of opinions! Haha.

I don’t care what anyone thinks when I’m done. I will build what I like. The question started because “I” was torn.

I love the coyote’s horsepower and everyday manners, but I also love the rawness of a SBF. That’s what I keep going back and forth about.

So regarding people calling it a kit car, or a replica car or whatever; show me what you built and drove to the show with your two bare hands and we can have a conversation. I am however interested in everyone’s opinion about what they think is best in this car. Again, knowing from the start that there is no “right answer”.

Although resale is a consideration. I’m no where near bing done, as a matter of fact, I just completed the front suspension so this will take a long time. But I’m sure someday I’ll sell it and move up to something else so resale is a consideration.
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Old 5th February 2018, 11:07 PM   #40
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Re: Coyote or SBF

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Originally Posted by 70gsconvt View Post
Sounds like a great car. And this kind of goes back to one of my earlier posts when I showed an Weber style EFI for an LS-series engine. Don't mount the coil packs on the valve covers and for the casual observer, it looks like it should. And you can make a lot of power very easily with an LS engine.

But for me, I like to tinker and work on engines so I'd probably do a 408 windsor engine.
Phillip,

If you're more comfortable with Chevy then use a Chevy engine - one of the great things about a replica is that it can be done in different stages of "replication" of the original....very close/perfect replication such as the SPF cars or less so such as the CAV/RCR etc. None are originals so nobody is defiling a historic artifact by customizing it to their individual taste. You're the one driving it so make it what you want.

Yes, that's a heck of a good looking EFI sitting on top of any V8....Ford or Chevy. One word of caution, it's my impression that none of the multi-port (8 port) systems are bolt-on and plug-n-play. There is a TON of work including basic stuff like QC'ing the EFI mechanicals themselves, just for example. Ultimately, if you're doing the work yourself, or paying somebody else to do it, there are dramatically different financial costs and time lines associated with each...so good to keep that in mind too. In other words, what can you afford to do, and can you do yourself (or not) may set some very firm boundaries around the possible choices.
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