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GT40 Tech - Engines/Induction/Exhaust Motors and engine related - right here!

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Old 9th February 2018, 03:03 AM   #41
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Re: Coyote or SBF

Interesting exchanges in this thread to say the least. After reading all the comments, I'm still left wandering from a specifications perspective, which engine and transaxle setup is "best suited" for a typical GT40 build?

I read one comment that seemed to indicate that a Coyote with the Transaxle would "stick out" much more than a SBF. Is that true?

I did a quick search and found that a Coyote engine is just barely over 26 inches long and a Boss 302 is shown at 29 inches.

According to the dimensions I have found here:

rx7club.com/attachments/v-8-powered-rx-7s-299/565655d1442027779-ford-coyote-swaps-do-they-fit-hrdp-1306-02-ford-coyote-engine-swap-guide-how-coyote-measures-up-graph.jpg

I think I would lean towards a coyote in every case other than an attempt to build an exact clone of an actual / original GT.

Last edited by Loren Brown; 9th February 2018 at 03:37 AM. Reason: Weird format width
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Old 9th February 2018, 11:36 AM   #42
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Re: Coyote or SBF

I think people are referring to the Ricardo that normally is attached
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Old 9th February 2018, 01:05 PM   #43
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Re: Coyote or SBF

SBF= more like the real thing, old school, and simple. Coy= more complicated, modern, and, quite a bit differed in look and feel than the original. It really comes down to this: it's your money do what you want.

Note: I have been doing quite a bit of research on FI systems for my SLC. What I have learned is unless you have basically a mild tune and or stock engine and electronics package there is no such thing as "plug and play, self tuning, or self learning" FI systems. All of them will require a experienced tuner to set up the computer. The hard part is to find a good one and not throw huge amounts of money at a pretender.

IMHO a Coy left as it comes from the box with the standard harness and computer from Ford just might work as is, BUT be prepared to get it tuned and spend additional dollars doing it. I would find a tuner/shop before I bought the engine if it was me.
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Old 9th February 2018, 01:32 PM   #44
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Re: Coyote or SBF

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Originally Posted by MHNCO View Post
I think people are referring to the Ricardo that normally is attached
You are probably right but why would that same transaxle stick out any further on the slightly smaller Coyote engine any further than it would on a SBF?

What a beast of a transaxle, by the way!
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Old 9th February 2018, 01:37 PM   #45
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Smile Re: Coyote or SBF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Jones View Post
SBF= more like the real thing, old school, and simple. Coy= more complicated, modern, and, quite a bit differed in look and feel than the original. It really comes down to this: it's your money do what you want.

Note: I have been doing quite a bit of research on FI systems for my SLC. What I have learned is unless you have basically a mild tune and or stock engine and electronics package there is no such thing as "plug and play, self tuning, or self learning" FI systems. All of them will require a experienced tuner to set up the computer. The hard part is to find a good one and not throw huge amounts of money at a pretender.

IMHO a Coy left as it comes from the box with the standard harness and computer from Ford just might work as is, BUT be prepared to get it tuned and spend additional dollars doing it. I would find a tuner/shop before I bought the engine if it was me.
Point taken on the cost and time for the computer skills. I can imagine it would be quite a learning curve for most builders. I certainly do miss the days of working on some of my old cars, doing my own tuneups and all. Back when I could still see the pavement on both sides of my motors when I had the hood up.
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Old 9th February 2018, 02:05 PM   #46
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Re: Coyote or SBF

Easiest route is 347 as deckheight comes into play as well. I'm using a 351W and 408C in my two SGT builds, with some issues already spacewise, deck 9.5" for W and 9.2" C.
The Coyote is a different ballgame all together. It will not fit properly within the cutout of the rear clip and result is you will have to cut out almost all of the rear clip under the window to clear it all, even if you drop the engine lower than the chassis rails.
If I was to choose engine again it would be a 347.
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Old 9th February 2018, 02:45 PM   #47
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Re: Coyote or SBF

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Originally Posted by Morten A. Larsen View Post
Easiest route is 347 as deckheight comes into play as well. I'm using a 351W and 408C in my two SGT builds, with some issues already spacewise, deck 9.5" for W and 9.2" C.
The Coyote is a different ballgame all together. It will not fit properly within the cutout of the rear clip and result is you will have to cut out almost all of the rear clip under the window to clear it all, even if you drop the engine lower than the chassis rails.
If I was to choose engine again it would be a 347.
I see what you mean.

Looks pretty tight!

gt40supercharged.com/gt40_images/GT40-Engine-2.jpg
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Old 9th February 2018, 05:46 PM   #48
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Re: Coyote or SBF

WOW Morton. That is one heck of an exhaust setup you have there. And with a cross-over tube no less. And lots of heat reflective gold too.
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Old 9th February 2018, 10:57 PM   #49
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Re: Coyote or SBF

No shortage of clean builds on this site...

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Old 10th February 2018, 09:39 AM   #50
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Re: Coyote or SBF

That’s EXACTLY what I’m talking about!

As I said at the beginning, my chassis is designed for a Coyote. If I were to use a SBF, I would need to cut out the existing motor mounts and weld in new ones (which I have no problem going) so size isn’t a concern.

I really like the coyote for all the reasons stated earlier, I like the SBF also. I’ve gone back and forth so many times I can’t remember what my last “decision” was.

As of now and after seeing that amazing coyote build, I’m leaning coyote again. Like I said, I’m not into originality per se. I love the car and the design, but I want handling and modern performance.

I love all the comments!
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Old 10th February 2018, 11:27 AM   #51
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Re: Coyote or SBF

Whatever you do, just be aware that it is sometimes difficult to get your engine/transaxle package to all fit inside the bodywork of a MK1 without encroaching upon the cabin to fit water pumps / pulleys etc..
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Old 10th February 2018, 05:09 PM   #52
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Re: Coyote or SBF

What is that induction system? Was it hard to get it running on Coyote?
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Old 10th February 2018, 07:52 PM   #53
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Re: Coyote or SBF

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Originally Posted by 70gsconvt View Post
What is that induction system? Was it hard to get it running on Coyote?
Look up Ford "eight stack" FE intakes for coyote engines.

There are several variations to consider.
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Old 10th February 2018, 09:57 PM   #54
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Re: Coyote or SBF

That's what I thought. I talked about the 8 stack for a windsor earlier.
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Old 10th February 2018, 11:38 PM   #55
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Re: Coyote or SBF

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That's what I thought. I talked about the 8 stack for a windsor earlier.
Definitely works of art. Much respect for the manufacturers.
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Old 11th February 2018, 07:27 PM   #56
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Re: Coyote or SBF

Since there will never be a right answer to this question because it’s subjective in nature, let me ask a question that will have a definitive answer.

Which engine would be easier to set up and sort out?

The coyote has a computer but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s easy. The SBF is old school and I would have a better understanding of it, but it will still need a lot of fine tuning to make it right.

So which would be easier to set up and sort out?
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Old 11th February 2018, 08:08 PM   #57
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Re: Coyote or SBF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norcoastal View Post
Since there will never be a right answer to this question because itís subjective in nature, let me ask a question that will have a definitive answer.

Which engine would be easier to set up and sort out?

The coyote has a computer but that doesnít necessarily mean itís easy. The SBF is old school and I would have a better understanding of it, but it will still need a lot of fine tuning to make it right.

So which would be easier to set up and sort out?
I think your question is still very subjective. What may be easier for some may be harder for others and vice versa. It may also depend on what you mean by "sort out."

Personally, I am a little more comfortable working on the old school engines, myself but I very much appreciate things like overhead cams, the elimination of push rods and lifters, coil packs instead of points and condensers and methods of fuel injection over most vintage carb setups.
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Old 11th February 2018, 09:38 PM   #58
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Re: Coyote or SBF

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Originally Posted by Loren Brown View Post
I think your question is still very subjective. What may be easier for some may be harder for others and vice versa. It may also depend on what you mean by "sort out."

Personally, I am a little more comfortable working on the old school engines, myself but I very much appreciate things like overhead cams, the elimination of push rods and lifters, coil packs instead of points and condensers and methods of fuel injection over most vintage carb setups.
Fair point...
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Old 12th February 2018, 08:03 AM   #59
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Re: Coyote or SBF

This question probably depends on which generation you're talkinig to. Anyone over 50 would say definitely do the 351W engine as there are only a "few' things that need to be adjust to be tuned and running well.

Anyone under 40-45 will want to whip out their laptop, go through the engine MAP's and have it running well after 3 runs on a chassis dyno.
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Old 12th February 2018, 03:20 PM   #60
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Re: Coyote or SBF

LOL, I just turned 59 today and enjoy data logging, tuning my cars (one is a 351W) with a laptop, or switching a tune file with my GIAC ECM programmer.

Speaking of tunes, I still crank up a few of my fav Combichrist, Lamb of God, or Daath in the garage....keeps the easily intimidated under 40-45 neighbors out of my garage so I can focus!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 70gsconvt View Post
This question probably depends on which generation you're talkinig to. Anyone over 50 would say definitely do the 351W engine as there are only a "few' things that need to be adjust to be tuned and running well.

Anyone under 40-45 will want to whip out their laptop, go through the engine MAP's and have it running well after 3 runs on a chassis dyno.
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