Who can cut crown and pinion gears?

jonesy_sa · 07-10-08, 05:17 AM

There has been a allot of discussion about flipping trans etc, but who can cut the new crown and pinion gears at a resonable price to suite the inbuilt diff. Years ago i use to see speed shops in magazines advetising custom cut gear sets for 9inch ford diffs im assuming anyone that can do this should be able to mirror image the diff Crown and pinion for me. Does anyone have any reccomendations? or know roughly what this kind of work costs?
thanks
jonesy

Jac Mac · 07-10-08, 05:50 AM

Perhaps I have missed something in your request, but why would you wish to mirror image the production CWP- do you wish to run the motor backwards?

jonesy_sa · 07-10-08, 06:25 AM

Then engine wont run backwards. Im just pondering a project ive had sitting in the back shed so to speak. Due to engine trans arrangement i have 6 reverse and 1 forward. I wish to flip the diff upside down to fix this problem. However i have been informed of lubrication issue and gear integrity. I can fix lubrication, however i was told the crown and pinion were not cut to be designed to spin in this direction under speed and load. I assumed having a new crown and pinion cut would solve this.

Straight 8 Racing · 07-10-08, 07:33 AM

You might want to speak to a company in South Australia called Allbins or Alvins they make transaxles for off road cars, I understand they have the required machinery

Iain

Ron Earp · 07-10-08, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonesy_sa

I assumed having a new crown and pinion cut would solve this.

This is an extremely non-trivial request. Folks with a better memory than me can chime in here, but as I recall a couple of individuals went down this road a few years ago with a small transaxle supplier. The group finally managed to get one of the few machine companies in the world than can even cut R&Ps to do a run of special ratios, but the cost was extremely high in numbers which were much larger than you are talking about.

Why not run the VW transmission as someone suggested on another thread? As I recall you weren't looking for a lot of horsepower and a VW transaxle is already setup for what you want to do with huge numbers of upgrades for it available.

Jason Ferraro · 07-10-08, 09:24 AM

Jonesy the company Albins is located in Victoria:

24 Wiltshire Lane

Delacombe Victoria 3356.
P: 61 3 5335 8022
F: 61 3 5335 8366
W: Albins off-road gear : Front page

I Visited them when I was looking at buying one of their sequential gearboxes for my RCR40 (bought a Ford GT Ricardo instead). Very impressive abilities and a bunch of great guys. Not sure if this will fix your issue though.

CRASH33 · 07-10-08, 10:32 AM

BTW- The cheaper Mendeola boxes are VW Bus boxes mated to a Ford 9" R&P. The diff can be run in either position and the cost is about $5k. If you run relatively low HP/Trq, they will work fine. I have run one on a desert car for the past five years or so with no issues. The car has 250HP 200Ft lbs, and is 1000 lbs. It is FAR superior to a straight VW box, but costs more and is heavier.

And B&J two speeds out of Arizona can do the work you request. Also Weddle Engineering in California. Both are pricey. I went down your path before buying the Mendy. It wasn't worth it.

Lambo · 07-11-08, 12:05 AM

Hi had you thought about using a Renault un1 trans they are already made so you can flip the crown wheel from one side to the other so the motor can be in front or behind the trans.

Regards
Lambo

Jac Mac · 07-11-08, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crash33

BTW- The cheaper Mendeola boxes are VW Bus boxes mated to a Ford 9" R&P. The diff can be run in either position and the cost is about $5k. If you run relatively low HP/Trq, they will work fine. I have run one on a desert car for the past five years or so with no issues. The car has 250HP 200Ft lbs, and is 1000 lbs. It is FAR superior to a straight VW box, but costs more and is heavier.

And B&J two speeds out of Arizona can do the work you request. Also Weddle Engineering in California. Both are pricey. I went down your path before buying the Mendy. It wasn't worth it.

I think you will find that they are older Quick Change type R&P sets with pinion on center with axles, not the Hypoid 9" Ford setup.

CRASH33 · 07-11-08, 11:37 AM

I'm trying to remember when I last had it apart. It has been a few years. It may be a half hypoid and not a 3/4 hypoid like most Porsche boxes, but you may be right I can't remember actually seeing literature stating that it is an actual Ford 9". In any case, the weakness of the VW boxes was addressed with a substantially larger R&P. The weak link now appears to be the intermediate housing and the bearings. I had heard of issues with both when I bought my Mendy, and upgraded the intermediate plate and bearings and have had no issues. Again only 200 Ft Lbs and a 1000 Lbs car. The MD4 is WAY overkill for my application.

Pete T · 07-16-08, 12:29 AM

Quote:

The group finally managed to get one of the few machine companies in the world than can even cut R&Ps

After thinking about this for a minute I was wondering, if there are only a few machine companies that can cut R & P's they must be cutting gears around the clock just to keep up with the millions of new cars being built.

If this is the case, how does anyone make aftermarket gear sets? Especially at the prices they get for them? The aftermarket sells gears (like Richmond Gear) for American cars (GM 7.5"; 8.2"; 8.5"; 12 bolt; Ford 9"; 8.75"; Dana 30; 44; 60; etc.) for around $150 new. They even make new gear sets for Corvairs, which are very limited in numbers and they only cost $312!

CRASH33 · 07-16-08, 11:10 AM

You seem to have answered your own question Pete. Those Dana, Ford, and GM units are all standardized and high production quantity units, so once things are set up, it makes sense to "be cutting gears around the clock". As for the Corvair, many companies do HUGE production runs that will last for decades on the shelves. My guess is many GM products from the past have quite a few spares somewhere in a warehouse. Beyond that, it's supply and demand. Look at all the different transaxles coming out recently with the demand that has increased.

Wayne M. · 07-16-08, 08:24 PM

Cutting ring and pinion gears is quite an undertaking. I recently contacted Richmond Gear about a reverse direction gear set for a Corvair transaxle. They can do it in most any ratio I would like but I would have to buy about 50 sets at over $600 per set. Needless to say this thought went away pretty fast. Running the gears backwards by reversing the engine rotation is an option but the gears are running on the coast side of the gear and exert tons of side thrust and can destroy the diff case. Getting an engine to run backwards is not difficult, the boat guys do it all the time in twin engine boats.

BruceLambo · 07-17-08, 06:08 PM

I still dont get this point where setting up to do a cut is such a major undertaking. As WayneM said, they want a minimum 50 sets. You cant tell me its going to take a week or more to set up a machine designed to cut these gears. I would say its more like "we cant be bothered as its so easy to set up we are going to make no money out of doing a 1-off." Once the machine is set, its just put to work cutting while the operator goes off and has a cuppa tea.

Tell me then how do OEM places do it when they are producing around 1000 sets a day or more for their vehicles? Dont tell me they have 1000 Gleesons sitting in a shed clunking out crownwheels.

Has anyone on the site ever visited an OEM gearbox or production facility and see how they actually do this??

Cliff Beer · 07-18-08, 03:09 AM

There is a really good gear cutting business in Seattle called The Gear Works (Gears by The Gear Works - gearbox repair, gears, planetary gears, gear cutting, gearing, hobbing, Seattle, ISO 9000, 9001.) - they do lots of custom jobs and have a nice and efficient approach to such work. Kind of distant from you but may be worth talking with them about a limited run or one-off.

jonesy_sa · 07-22-08, 01:39 AM

I got a quote from an Australian transaxle manufacturer and they wanted $6000. Just a tad out of my budget i would say :-) Just curious though, i found a thread discussed an American who had designed a transaxle for sale around the 11k, he had some heart issues and disappeared. Anyhow he had 'Quick Change gears' in his box to quickly change ratios and thus oogle revealed that this is done also with diff housings. In theory i could make a quick change housing attached to the front of the differential which would allow the diff to face the wrong direction and thus due to the gearset would still mesh correctly.
Would these quick change gears handle this power and torque in this application, who uses these, what diffs come with them (i seen a pic of a diff prebuilt with this set up for some sort of racing or hotord).
Any comments, thanks....
Jonesy

Jac Mac · 07-22-08, 01:52 AM

Check out EGOMAN and his project in the build thread section Titled --Egomans GT40esque project on page three of that section I think.

jonesy_sa · 07-22-08, 06:42 AM

Thanks Jac Mac, funny i like everone else seems to think of the same things :-) It seems a Quick-change diff would be handy to have around and have some fun with like Egoman. Ive noticed these sell for as little as a few hundred complete in USA yet $1500 here!!! Ive emailed a few people regarding stripping the diff back and just sending the centre assembly, no axles, tubes etc. however i dont like my luck nor the postage.
Is there anyone that sells just the quick change assembly without the diff, ie http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/a...4&d=1196138570 imagine that the quick change in this image on the right, unbolts of the diff to the left.
thanks
jonesy

egoman · 07-22-08, 08:22 PM

Allthough I havent made any progress lately the project is still being planned. If you check out the circle track suppliers a complete quick change housing can be had new for 1200$Most suppliers of these rears sell all parts that you may need separately.Google halibrand or winters for more info as well as oval track parts suppliers.