New Kid on the block!!

Gregster · 09-07-07, 09:09 PM

Good day fellow sport car fans!!

I am beginning a quest for my next project. A GT40 Kit. I would welcome some REAL experienced advise as to the best all around kit maker. I am told that I won't get a more practical opinion than here at GT40s.com

Scott Calabro · 09-07-07, 11:43 PM

Welcome aboard Gregster!

Make sure you put your firesuit on!

There several kits available to you. All are good, some are better. I am biased as I sell the TS40.

Soon I will be building chassis #875 in the build forum, when it gets delivered here from England.

Hang around and read, ask intelligent questions, do a substantial amount of research, I mean ALOT of research and then you can make an informed decision.

After you do that, the GT40 replica you buy will be the best one for YOU!

Cheers,
Scott

Gregster · 09-08-07, 08:11 AM

Good Day Scott,

Thanks for the welcome!

I guess the sight is holding true, 1st shot and I get info directly from the source. Tornado is certainly one of the kits that gets a lot of press, and continues to show up as I do research.

The frame for the Tornado is of extreme interest to me and having a background in Aerospace/aircraft manufacturing, I would like to know why Tornado chose the tubular design over the welded Alum. plate design?

I would greatly appreciate your input......Thanks

Keep your wheels on the road!!!!

Gregster

Dean Lampe · 09-08-07, 08:48 AM

Welcome to the sight. I just finished up RCR 33. I have over 400 pictures of the build. Send me you address and I will try to burn you a
CD. I think your decision is a multi step process. I went like this.
1 build or buy?

I needed to build because I wanted to build a purpose build car with some very specific goals in mind.

2 Space frame or mono

I wanted the mono for two reasons. First, thats how they where built in the day and second, it looks cool because other kit cars don't do it that way.

3 Steel or aluminum

refer to second part of #2

That was basically my process. Not real scientific but neither am I.

FRPGUY · 09-08-07, 10:22 AM

Gregster, welcome! I see you are in Mass. My shop is in Norwell. If you want to see what an original GT40 body looks like give me a call at 1-781-659-1404. There is a group of us forum members here in New England in various stages of building GT40's. You might want to join in on some of our cook outs. Good bunch of guys!!

Scott Calabro · 09-08-07, 10:34 AM

Hi Gregster,

Dean has in fact built a really nice ride. You should take him up on his offer.

As to why Tornado builds a tubular semi-mono with stressed panels, well as you can see by my chassis #, Tornado has been in business for a long time with a proven design. Its light, stiff and easy to repair in the event of an accident. We have looked into producing a full monocoque, but for us right now, the current design makes the most sense.

Chassis design is part science, part art, and part philosophy.

Every design has its good and bad points.

Suffice it to say, do the research on all the manufacturers, spend time on their respective websites, call them and ask questions. Then it should be easy for you to decide which one is best for your intended use.

You are in the same state as I am, so when chassis #875 gets here you are most welcome to come and have a look!

Cheers,
Scott

Gregster · 09-09-07, 07:59 PM

Good Day Dean,

Thanks for the info. I appreciate your insight. I think I will eventually choose a car based more on emotion than actual pros or cons. I have heard some banter about your car, you have done us all a great service by documenting your build so well, I hope I remember to follow your lead. I will need to talk with you more about the mono and the advantage of having the chas. already partly together. I will forward my address to you when I figure out how to do that privately. Thanks for the offer of the pix. Nothing better than having some one go before you and lighting up the path a little.

Gregster · 09-09-07, 08:07 PM

Good Day FRPGUY,

Thanks for the invite, great to know some one with experience is close buy. Getting together with your gang would be great, I will be more comfortable doing so when I have something to offer. My shop right now is 1 side of my garage and I have one car to unload before I can move in the next project. I started my research after having been at Lime Rock this summer and feeling very left out by not having something small and very fast. Need to change that. Thanks again for your reply. I hope I can avail myself of your experience at some point in the future.......Take care!

Gregster · 09-09-07, 08:18 PM

Good day Scott,

Thanks for the information. I have to admit that the tubular chas looks a little intimidating, however that is more emotional than scientific. Do you know of any historical info. as to weather the tubular or mono holds up better over time. I am not a racer, and if I build this car, my plan would be to keep it for life and pass it on. So I want to give it my best shot from the beginning. The mono has been around for a long time and while it has its shortcomings, it has raced a lot of miles!!

Thanks again for your insight. It is greatly appreciated......Take care!

Scott Calabro · 09-09-07, 11:08 PM

Hi Gregsterv,

If you are at all handy with an electric drill and a tape measure, you can easily panel a TS40! Our chassis/car is designed to be assembled with ordinary hand tools found in most guy's garages.

I may catch some flack for this but the original monocoque was never intended to last, really, as it was a race car, and we all know what can happen on a track! It was made of mild pressed steel panels that were spot welded together with no corrosion protection.

A good review and restoration of an original cars monocoque, can be seen at RacingIcons.com .

A properly assembled TS40 will last a lifetime. The good news is that, if you were to have structural rust/corrosion issue, it would generally be a simple weld repair that any competent local welder could perform.

Hope that helps...

Cheers,
Scott

It might be a good idea for one of the Forum Administrators to move this thread to "All GT40" ?

Fran Hall RCR · 09-10-07, 12:48 AM

Scott,

how about a Tornado forum as Andy does already have a banner add....might be a worthwhile investment..

John Lowe · 09-10-07, 07:34 AM

Hi

Here are some of the reasons I ordered RCR. Sorry if this rambles a bit but these were some of my thought processes in making my selection.

1. Accident damage, all the space frame guys raise this one. Think about it. If you have a shunt heavy enough to damage the chassis then it is likely that the whole car will have to be stripped and rebuilt anyway, this includes removal and replacement of riveted aluminium panels including new bodywork, paint etc. The least of your worries will be the cost of repairing/replacing the chassis. I suspect the overall cost difference is not that great.
2. The owner of RCR has a background in racing, combined with latest CAD design techniques, and has over engineered the chassis with an emphasis on long life.
3. The space frame guys were quick to point out that stress hardening of aluminium is a problem. This is a complete red herring. There are thousands of different Aluminium alloys available each with different properties. Lotus has an aluminium chassis, Audi A8, Jaguar XK and XJ Ferrari 430 etc. I recently saw a 1940 supermarine spitfire pulling over 4g in a display; guess what it’s made from?
4. With the proviso that the design is good in both cases, you can make a stiffer monocoque structure with aluminium than stainless steel for a given weight. Also a monocoque chassis for a given weight, again with the proviso that the design is good in both cases, will be stiffer and stronger than a space frame.
5. Quality of detailed engineering e.g. suspension pick up points, design and fabrication of wishbones, quality of welding etc were also areas I looked at critically. RCR is up there with the best in these regards (especially the front wishbones and suspension pick up points).
6. From my research the RCR is as close to the original shape as you will get. (This is probably true of the other quality suppliers also).
7. The one weakness of the RCR kit is that there are not many around but I suspect that they are currently one of the fastest selling replicas (difficult to prove but that’s my impression). If you look in the builder’s forum there are a number of finished cars with very happy owners. At least one of them is running big HP (600+BHP) and has track day’d his car.

Finally, although I am an engineer by training and profession, these are my own views based on my own research (I just love the elegance of RCR engineering). I feel sure you will find many with opposing thoughts! Certainly I would agree with others, research your purchase in a lot of detail before making a choice.

Your GT40 should reflect what is important to you, happy hunting!

John

Mark Worthington · 09-10-07, 10:39 AM

Hi Gregster,

I'm another guy in Massachusetts and I'm building an RF spaceframe. Hopefully we'll see you at one of our cookouts.

Rob · 09-10-07, 12:25 PM

Hey Gregster,
Welcome to the community. You will find a great bunch of guys here with a lot of experience which is shared openly. Of course.... a lot of opinions to...

My opinion is biased, as I am currently building an RCR-40. We all went through this process of evaluation though. You can ask Fran, I probably stopped by his shop and drilled him face to face no fewer than 8 times, even bringing fellow engineers with be to assist with the drilling before I plopped my money down. Ultimately, the grace of the chassis design, logical simplistic characteristics, billet aluminum componentry and homage to the original cars were what tipped to scales for me.

In general I agree with all the comments mentioned above. Seems like John and my thought process' are quite similar in fact....

The below link has my thread if you care to take a peek.

Best of luck in your quest......

Andy Sheldon · 09-10-07, 12:28 PM

Fran

Is that remark supposed to be some sort of joke between yourself and Ron??

I have sent endless emails to Ron about having a Tornado forum but for some reason I can not quite put my finger on he has totally ignored all of my mails.

In the end I got pi**ed of with waisting my time and gave up.

If a Tornado forum is not wanted or required on GT40s.com thats his loss.

Andy

Fran Hall RCR · 09-10-07, 12:41 PM

Andy..

not at all.

I think a Tornado forum would be worthwhile as you have a solid customer following ...and some nice builds in progress.

Sorry if this hit a raw nerve...

Ron may have an RCR car but I have no idea how he sets the forum up for adding new sections.

chuck smith · 09-10-07, 02:04 PM

this is not going to turn into a FFR type of site with the never ending banter about "my frame is stronger than yours" is it? All the frames from the major players seem very adequete to me and I do not think I can stomach another groupie site.

Ian K · 09-10-07, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck 1

this is not going to turn into a FFR type of site with the never ending banter about "my frame is stronger than yours" is it? All the frames from the major players seem very adequete to me and I do not think I can stomach another groupie site.

We already did this - years ago

But I agree, all of the chassis from the major players seem adequate. It just boils down the
a few things - support (again, all seem to fare well here), availability of replacement parts,
location (being closer to the manufacturer is often a good thing), purpose (road vs. race),
and emotion.

Ian

Ron Earp · 09-10-07, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Sheldon

I have sent endless emails to Ron about having a Tornado forum but for some reason I can not quite put my finger on he has totally ignored all of my mails.

In the end I got pi**ed of with waisting my time and gave up.

If a Tornado forum is not wanted or required on GT40s.com thats his loss.

Andy

Hi Andy,

I have not ignored your requests for a GT40s.com Tornado forum. Nothing could be further from the truth – I have not received any requests from you on the matter. I don’t know why I have not received them, but those are the facts.

Scott did PM me about 6 weeks ago about having one and I responded to him within a couple of hours. I would have done the same for you had I had the request. I’m sorry, but I never received on from you via PM or email.

Scott has had the forum/advertising information since 8/6/2007 when I sent him a PM. He asked for the information because you suspected your were having email issues (his words) and said that information would be transferred over to you. I can forward you the message sent to him on 8/6/2007 if you like.

Tornado can certainly have a forum section for Tornado car discussion. As far as any special treatment for RCR/Fran there is none. He pays forum advertising rates and forum fees just as you and the other advertisers do. Without any of you guys the forum would not exist, and that is a fact.

My private email is rlearp@gt40s.com, or you can PM me directly off my screen name here if you have any questions.

Thanks,
Ron

NOW - this thread should be closed. The newbie forum is only for meet and greet, not for discussions of chassis type, car type, and so on. Put that in "All GT40" if you would. Thanks, Ron