GT40 roadsters: How many?

[Wallace Wyss]

I think four. But I am willing to go to six.
I know there's the Dean Jeffries roadster (which may have a 4-cam in it)
GT111, the green one that ws found in a British wrecking yard and pieced
together
There was one in Montana for many years, came to a SAAC convention
(tom Congleton?)
Then the one that puzzles me is the south African one. I only have a
black and white picture and it may be black or red in real life. I think
it was switched back to a coupe at some point in time. I know the restorers of
GT111 found a GT40 roadster body in South Africa, which may have been its body back when that car was converted to a coupe.

Then there is the car that won Sebring in '66, that was a big block 427
that was originally a Can Am car called the GTX-1 also known as "Big Ed."
For Sebring it was fitted with a Mk. II rear body and Mk.II nose and painted red.
That car was thrown into a landfill sometime after 1966 (anybody got a metal detector?)

Any others that come to mind?

Thanks Fellow GT40 fans

Ps I made a painting of a GT40 roadster but don't know how
to post art on this site. I'll let you know when I get it on my website Cobra-ranch.com

 

[Mark Clapp]

Hi Bitzman, I'm pretty sure it is five. GTs 108, 109, 111, 112, and the J-car that was fitted with MKII bodywork.

 

[Paulus]

Hi Wallace

basically 5 original completed GT40 roadsters

GT108 (the first GT40 roadster completed Mar 65)
GT109 (Dean Jeffries' restored car with Indy motor as you correctly state)
X-1 (McLaren built car currently in process of accurate/authentic recreation as per Sebring 66 spec with 427 FE motor, 2 speed semi auto trans, aviation grade alloy chassis. Original McLaren team involved & assisting. More details to come soon...!)
GT111 (the lindon green car that was rebuilt/recreated from the scrapped/rediscovered chassis)
GT112 (originally a roadster but then sent to south africa and re-roofed as a Coupe, more recently it was left to deteriorate but was sold a year back by its long time owner Ken Senior & is now apparently under restoration)

Hope that helps

For your artwork it would be great to see this - go to 'Manage Attachments' then you can browse to your file on your PC, select it and 'upload' it.

Kind regards

 

[DaveM]

Is this #108? It was in Kirkland, WA 2010, but I couldn't get a chassis #, only listed as 'prototype'.

 

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

Is this #108? It was in Kirkland, WA 2010, but I couldn't get a chassis #, only listed as 'prototype'.

Yes, Tom Coglingtons car.

 

[Doug]

There is supose to be a sister alum. bare tub to the #110, X-1 car floating around somewhere. Also, does anyone have any more info on the reconstructed #112?

 

[Jim Craik]

We will just have to wait for Ronnie's new book to be absolutly sure.

 

[Charlie Farley]

Jim,

Waiting for the book. ??....:uneasy::uneasy:
Ahhh, then there is still smoke and mirrors to come.
I know of two others.

 

[Paulus]

Hi Doug - reference the sister chassis, yes you are correct, there was indeed a 2nd combi alloy/steel roadster chassis supplied direct to Karkraft from Abbey Panels at the same time as the first lightweight roadster chassis was supplied direct to McLaren who built this up as the 'X-1' car which ended up winning the 1966 Sebring 12 Hr endurance race.
This sister chassis ('X-2') was a similar but much more oddball design and remained at Karkraft in an incomplete state until it was later confirmed to be put in a skip according to a reliable source. There were rumours that this was still floating around some years later, but the flawed design & poor construction techniques by Abbey Panels made this chassis totally unusable.
We have acquired all the original X-2 chassis pics taken at Karkraft as well as the original X-1 McLaren pics but these need to be closely guarded for the time being for reasons which will become apparent in due course.

Hi Andrew - If the two others roadsters that you mention are the two US cars currently being built up by a wealthy US 'gentleman' using X-1 and X-2 titles then I have to mention that these will simply be inaccurate replicas to put it politely.
I have a feeling that when Ronnie's book comes out that he will explain more on these cars as well as various other similar fake cars which seem to be built up by certain wealthy people in the hope of bamboozling (polite again!) everyone, so like everyone else, I am anxiously awaiting the publication date as I think it is likely to put the cat very much amongst the pigeons!

Best regards

 

[BenL]

Does the Mustang-1 (1962 mid-engined (V4) concept car roadster) count as a GT40?

 

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

Does the Mustang-1 (1962 mid-engined (V4) concept car roadster) count as a GT40?

In a word, no.

 

[Paulus]

BenL:- the Mustang 1 was way before the GT40 programme began in 1964 but the way things seem to be going I wouldnt be surprised that at some point it will try to reappear as an original GT40!

And a few library photos for Bitzman of the roadsters in some of their many forms

GT108

 

[Paulus]

Gt109

 

[Paulus]

X-1
Including a fantastic action shot in pits of X-1 in 3rd place chasing the lead during the 66 sebring race. Courtesy Ford archive (Dave Friedman collection)

 

[Paulus]

GT111
Original image, plus the rebuilt GT111 having some slight difficulty at Spa (2008?) on 3 wheels

 

[Paulus]

GT112 in 'coupe' form prior to recent sale.

 

[Steve Sobieralski]

I am very interested in GT110 because I am currently in the process of converting a 1/12 scale Trumpeter MkII model into the '66 Sebring winner. I have been trying figure out as much as I can about the car, I own many of the published Ford GT books and have searched the internet for whatever else I could find. Unfortunately, there is not a lot of information available specifically about GT110, at least as far as “under the skin” details for the modeler go.
Most sources describe the car as an experimental one-off aluminum chassis (well, two-off if you count the never used second chassis). This is fine as far as it goes, but one wonders if it was simply a standard GT40 chassis constructed out of aluminum instead of steel, or if it was modified or strengthened in any way. There is one source that sheds some light, Dave Friedman’s book Shelby GT40 has two small color photos of the car in the garage at Sebring. One shows it in the middle of a transmission change, and while the bulk of the rear chassis is unpainted aluminum, the rear frame or “horse collar” is painted blue, indicating that at least some of the chassis components may have been steel. Other blue painted items are the back face of the firewall and the base plate for the vertical oil cooler. I would guess that these were standard MkII pieces grafted on to the aluminum chassis.
The second photo is taken from farther away, looking down into the garage, and shows, the front of the car with the nose removed. Again, the majority of the chassis appears to be unpainted aluminum with the added MkII components, such as the framework supporting the radiator and jacking points, being painted blue or black. There are some interesting contrasts with Gurney’s No 2 standard MkII coupe which sits next to the No 1 roadster. Some minor components on the roadster that are painted appear to be bare metal on the coupe, and some that are bare metal on the roadster are painted on the coupe. Too bad it is not a closer or clearer photo. I was in great anticipation when Dave Freidman's '66 Sebring photos were finally posted at the Ford site a few months ago, but go there were very few additional garage shots and nothing that shed any further light for me on GT110’s internal workings.
The body modifications for Sebring are interesting. As others have stated , the front and rear clips were standard MkII, while the cowl and windshield appear to be standard roadster. The roadster windshield is narrower and more rounded that the coupe’s and the normal roadster side windows extend straight back from the rear of the windshield and are quite a bit inboard of where the coupe side windows are located . As the X-1, GT110 had a cut down windshield and side windows, without the A-pillar structure seen on typical roadsters, as well as the stock roadster doors and rear scoop arrangement. As part of the MkII conversion a standard roadster windshield with A-pillars was added and its side windows flare out from the narrower windshield to end up flush with the MkII rear clip and firewall. The doors appear to be shop-made items or modifications, as the side scallops for the rear scoops are slightly different from regular MkII doors and nowhere near as elegant. The interior of the doors were faced with metal panels.
Paulus, naturally your project interests me very much. From what I have read GT110 passed from McLaren to Kar Kraft, where it was “strengthened”, then went to Shelby American to be used to test transmissions. Your intention to fit an automatic transmission to your replica apparently reflects the original plan to run the car at Sebring with the automatic, but although it practiced with and broke two automatics, it raced and won with a regular four speed. In many ways GT110 was unique as both a roadster and a MkII, and while nothing can replace the original it would be great to see an accurate replica.
By the way, does anyone happen to know what F&E number was on GT110’s engine valve covers at Sebring?

Steve Sobieralski

 

[Paulus]

Hi Steve
Sorry for delayed reply - only just picked up on your forum posting today actually after work & overseas visit etc
You have been doing some good research already I see!
We do have full info on the original chassis construction as well as the subsequent mods by McLaren and further mods & repairs carried out by SAI. We have also acquired rights to original construction photos but unfortunately we are not in a position to be able to openly release this info although it will certainly be released in time as the project progresses.
I know this is not the answer you had hoped for but we hope you will understand, as the cost of the research itself together with the investment in the project is very substantial so the need to preserve the research info until further down the line is very important.
Best regards
Paul

 

[Steve Sobieralski]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for responding and I understand your position. I wish you luck on the project and hope to see the completed car some day. Since the 50th anniversary of 110's Sebring victory is coming up in 2016 I wonder if that might be a target date?

In the meantime if you, or anyone else on the forum, happens to know the car's F&E engine number at Sebring I would be very appreciative of that information.

Cheers.

Steve Sobieralski