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John, some of the fastest cars at the event were 4 and six cylinder. Here is a link to all the times Run 'N Gun The GT40 didn't come in second to the ultima, It came in ahead of the ultima.
Did Jeff's Ultima have one of his Twin Turbo LS engines in it? I would imagine driving a TT would be a bit of a challenge on a road course.
Dean why is the R+G run on a walled speedway? Looks like there are too many opportunities to smack a wall. Seems like there should be more RR friendly tracks that such an event could be run on (?) I being a car RR novice would be leary of flinging my prized car around a walled course. Just a thought on how the event might draw more participants in the future.
I totally agree with you about the speedway choice. Gateway actually owns the rights to the event and they are very flexible with some of our special circumstances. They also have all three types of racing. Road course, auto cross and drag racing. It is also very central. It is not the ideal set up but it is the best we have right now. Run and Gun has many classes and instructors to help the novice drivers progress at their own pace. It really is a fun event mainly due to the awesome people you meet their.
Jeff's car is crazy fast. In the drags he had a trap speed of MPH!!!!! He is running the twin turbo setup. It really is an unbelievable car. I just simply wanted to point out that there are a lot of great cars at Run and Gun, many running fantastic times built by normal guys like us.
Dean was this the event you finished a head in at the R N Gun.
The one he DNF in?
Sunday's event was the 90-mile timed road course. Jeff was in the 150-class. I was the co-pilot/aggrivator. Everything was working just fine as we rolled to grid. However, as we pulled up to the start line, we noticed volts around 10.8. We averaged 150 on the GPS for about 57 miles. When the volts hit 7.7 and about 33 miles to go, the ECU started to fail and we had to abandon the attempt. Roadside attempts to diagnose the trouble were unsuccessful. I will be interested to learn what the fix is.
No I think that was a different event. He was running fine at Run and Gun. There was no DNF. He looked to be running in top form. There is no doubt his car is fast in a straight line. He could pull away on the straight away but the RCR GT40 was just better through the corners. Maybe thats not true but the times are what they are. The difference between the two best times is so small I hate to say who is better than whom. I was just disappointed to hear from others who frequent other sites that there were claims of the ultima being head and shoulders ahead of everyone in every event. That was simply not the truth. We both had our butts kicked buy a 65 year old dude in a 6 cylinder! As I have always said, Jeff is a great guy and a fierce competitor with a very well developed car. I wish him the best. The Ultima is a very impressive car. (especially in my rear view mirror!)
John, some of the fastest cars at the event were 4 and six cylinder. Here is a link to all the times Run 'N Gun
Dean, I'm thrilled to see you mention this. I am active on a number of automotive forums, some Cobra related, and I must admit that it amazes me to see potential builders drooling over mega-CID engines. I frequently refer them to the Run 'N' Gun race results, in which it was a surprise at first to find the fastest cars were most often the SBF engined sort, not the 514 CID megamotors.
I attribute this to two factors--first, the lower torque output of the SBF compared to the monster motors allows the power to be "put to the ground" more effectively, thereby allowing for faster 60' times, and IMHO that's where most of the 1/4 mile events are won or lost; second , on the road course, the lower weight of the SBF engines equates (again, IMHO) to increased handling. Sure, the megamotors can drive by the 4 and 6 cyllinder vehicles on the long straight, but those lighter, less powerful vehicles often pass the megamotored megaliths on the twisties (again, IMHO, where the road course races are won or lost).
Huge power/CID numbers are great for bragging rights, but when the Run 'N' Gun event is over, it's often the competitors with the lower numbers who are actually doing the bragging.
It always depend what are your expectations from your dreamed sports car. For my point of view, this kind of car would encrease my level of stress up to the maximum level. It will spinn even in 5th gear and without notice. I hate that, much better and confortable and..and..and..my Dodge Viper. I can get in and out without starting a comic show every time. If somebody pushes me, I have sufficient reserve to ridiculise him, all that in the maximum confort. And when I sell the car, I will get some money back. Cioa
Yes everyone has different ideas on what a car should be. I am a fruitcake, I want all the power I can get.... at least I do when racing a motorcycle. But then I remember I don't ride streetbikes because it is counter productive to try and detune my head to ride at street safe speeds only to have to reverse the tune when I get back on the track. So I wonder to myself can I keep my head screwed on and drive a 'race car' on the street? Probably not, I will most likely drive my car on the street very rarely and it will spend most of it's time at the track. I would think most guys here would have a 'work' or 'family' car to do most of the daily driving. So a car that is difficult to use every day won't really be a problem.
Here is Jeffs reply to what happen at the r&g to Fran Hall. I just don't think a GT40 can out run Jeffs Ultima.
John
Fran, since you were not in attendance here's a few facts: Dean's RCR was working well and he's a great driver.
I had just re-installed the Baer brakes and was dialing in my bias during the session with Dean and prior.
This was my 1st time on a road course with the TT.
1st time with sticky tires as well. Last time on a road course for me was RG 2004.
I was the only car that ran the entire day with the transponder not working, at 4:30pm the times had not been posted for my group. Only when I went to the tower and asked for the times for my group, was I told that my transponder was not working. Despite everyone being told at 7am that a meatball flag would be displayed to those cars who were not being timed. I did not get the flag, all day, others did.
Road Course day 2, Dean's car had a mechanical issue.
The timer quit working on the session following mine, I was told by an organizer the times for my session were safe and were being used for the results.
But those times were never used. Those who saw the times from that session and my Racelogic Vbox know who's car was really quicker.
But, what's the point of any of this?
Dean's and my car were in different classes anyway.
And what was the 1/4 mile time on the RCR at R&G?
And the autocross times?
And what about that Mongoose GTP with the stock LS7?, how much quicker was that one?
Yes, my ignition box did fail during the drag race portion.
I've already lined up a famous Nascar driver to drive my car at R&G next year, 'cause I dont have big enough balls.
Cheers,
Jeff
If you post the whole thread to show an unbiased opinion you will see that I complimented Jeff on his car and his performance....why cant you show Dean the same grace?
What car do you have?
Were you also absent from the Run and Gun?
As I read what Jeff and Dean have both said...
Jeff may have been adjusting his bias...Dean may have been in the wrong gear...who cares....the result for that timed lap stands......
On that day...on that timed lap...Dean ran a faster lap than Jeff...the results show that they were the fastest times "recorded" for both guys......E.O.S.
__________________ FRAN HALL replica manufacturer.....
RCR-40..Mk1, 2 and Mk4
RCR-70 Mk3b
RCR-70 Spider
RCR-P4
Superlite Coupe
Superlite Roadster...including Electrolite
RCR917
XJ13 for SCF www.RACECARREPLICAS.COM www.superlitecars.com
Yet another example of a guy who goes to all the expense and trouble of building/buying a really quick fun car, and then he gets another guy to drive it... I will never understand the point of that...
Takes all kinds I guess.
When I was doing research, before getting my RF, I was asked by another Australian GT manufacturer why it was that I was also considering an Ultima. They told me that they manufactured the Ultima for the local Ultima "retailer" at that time and that their GT was quite simply faster and better.
I drove the demo Ultima and I thought it was pretty good so took the comment with a grain of salt.
Yes everyone has different ideas on what a car should be. I am a fruitcake, I want all the power I can get.... at least I do when racing a motorcycle. But then I remember I don't ride streetbikes because it is counter productive to try and detune my head to ride at street safe speeds only to have to reverse the tune when I get back on the track. So I wonder to myself can I keep my head screwed on and drive a 'race car' on the street? Probably not, I will most likely drive my car on the street very rarely and it will spend most of it's time at the track. I would think most guys here would have a 'work' or 'family' car to do most of the daily driving. So a car that is difficult to use every day won't really be a problem.
OK, friends, but anyway.....now THAT'S impressive......... but what's follows IS A FACT. Ciao Wanni
John, what is your deal? I have tried to be as politically correct as I can. I have praised Jeff as a great driver and a fine competitor. I have conceded that it was close and that it could go either way. I had a great time. Jeff had a great time. The timing was messed up on the last few sessions. That is all true. It is also true that on that day I ran a faster time, a lot of people did. We were both beat by a couple of 6 cylinder cars! Here is the big point. I don't care that you "think a Gt 40 can't out run Jeff's Ultima", the times are what they are. Were you there? I didn't think so. So why do you feel so compelled to fight this fight? I have never claimed to be the fastest or the best, yet I got dragged into this because I was faster than the "famous" Ultima. Sorry about that. Get over it. You tell your buddy to bring his car back next year and we can race again. If he can out run me, I will shake his hand and congratulate him on a great race. I will not pout around the different internet forums trying to run down the other drivers. What car do you drive? Do you want to race? Bring it on. I am sorry it comes to this but I have had enough.
Wanni, its not war, its not even a fight. Its just a couple guys who are passionate about the cars they drive and enjoy stirring the pot a little in there free time. I am definately in that group! Life's to short to put any real meaning into what gets said on these internet forums.
The driver was Jeff Schwartz from northern Il. A real nice guy and a super car.
As I have always said, Jeff is a great guy and a fierce competitor with a very well developed car. I wish him the best. The Ultima is a very impressive car. (especially in my rear view mirror!
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