U K bank bailout
- Thread starter A.J.
- Start date
While on the topic of the current financial mess:
A letter in The Times this week pointed out that the UK contribution to the European Union would, if we dropped out, just about pay for the banking bailout.
It’s a sobering thought.
Would you rather pump billions of pounds into an organization run by people who are answerable to no-one and who happily squander other people’s money or pump billions into several smaller organizations run by people who are answerable to no-one and who happily squander other people’s money?
Ian Anderson
Lifetime Supporter
Al to be honest I don't think anyone knows - even those that wrote the cheques!
The number £40billion has been bandied about a lot! Now in the UK a Billion is a million million so one hell of a lot of cash! But then may have these lew labour (no capitals as they do not deserve them) idiots now confusing everyone by not explaining how much in reality they are paying by never depecting the amount in numbers! So any value put thereon may be a factor of one thousand times out - close enough for new labour!
The Royal Bank of Scotand has been buying up a number of banks in USA and other countries and was looking good until the USA property bubble popped causing the subsidiaries to go down and drawing the parent down too. The UK property market is likewise in decline (numbers of 11% down in the year to September on the news yesterday and another 1.5 expected drop in October)
So what is happening? RBS has a huge mortgage portfolio (me included) and has been offering "deals" of 2 - 3 years at good rates - end of term call up and renegotiate for next period no charges and all done on a phone call! Well mine just came due 2 months ago - bad timing or what? and RBS says you were on 1.75% below the RBS base rate but now we will only offer 0.5% below our bank base rate that is about 4% higher than Bank of England Base (Used to match Bank of England plus 2%) - and to get the 0.5% reduction for 2 years will cost £1000 to set up! Their numbers did not work for me so I moved my mortgage elsewhere.
Basically this is what they are doing as and when every mortgage becomes due and people are moving to other banks and the RBS is getting it's liquidity back!
So the bail our of RBS will be reasonably short term and will be paid off with RBS getting out of a lot of mortgages. Or with people not able to move their mortgages paing a lot higher interest! No doubt some houses will be reposessed and cause losses for tthe bank.
The government is not insisting on change in the board but is supposedly saying they need t curb bonusses but that will probably be ignored too.
So in the long run it will cost all uk taxpayers more tax as the country is already broke after too many labour years overspending against it's tax revenue and now needing to borrow internationally.
So borrow £40 000 000 000 at 2.5% is £1 000 000 000 per year or £16.67 per each UK person (60 000 000 population)
or was that £40 000 000 000 000 at 2.5% or £ 1 000 000 000 000per uear or £16 666 per UK person (60 000 000 population)
Depends on which billion they decide to use.
And this is only for RBS the other banks are likewise getting bailled out to lesser amounts.
So my guess from all this is that my tax bill will go up about £1000 a year to bail out the banks and the repayment will be spread over numerous years - any more than that and I'll move and they'll get no money!
Ian
Perhaps I should add Keith's disclaimer posted here!
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-parts-sale/26769-gt40-filler-caps-2.html
The number £40billion has been bandied about a lot! Now in the UK a Billion is a million million so one hell of a lot of cash! But then may have these lew labour (no capitals as they do not deserve them) idiots now confusing everyone by not explaining how much in reality they are paying by never depecting the amount in numbers! So any value put thereon may be a factor of one thousand times out - close enough for new labour!
The Royal Bank of Scotand has been buying up a number of banks in USA and other countries and was looking good until the USA property bubble popped causing the subsidiaries to go down and drawing the parent down too. The UK property market is likewise in decline (numbers of 11% down in the year to September on the news yesterday and another 1.5 expected drop in October)
So what is happening? RBS has a huge mortgage portfolio (me included) and has been offering "deals" of 2 - 3 years at good rates - end of term call up and renegotiate for next period no charges and all done on a phone call! Well mine just came due 2 months ago - bad timing or what? and RBS says you were on 1.75% below the RBS base rate but now we will only offer 0.5% below our bank base rate that is about 4% higher than Bank of England Base (Used to match Bank of England plus 2%) - and to get the 0.5% reduction for 2 years will cost £1000 to set up! Their numbers did not work for me so I moved my mortgage elsewhere.
Basically this is what they are doing as and when every mortgage becomes due and people are moving to other banks and the RBS is getting it's liquidity back!
So the bail our of RBS will be reasonably short term and will be paid off with RBS getting out of a lot of mortgages. Or with people not able to move their mortgages paing a lot higher interest! No doubt some houses will be reposessed and cause losses for tthe bank.
The government is not insisting on change in the board but is supposedly saying they need t curb bonusses but that will probably be ignored too.
So in the long run it will cost all uk taxpayers more tax as the country is already broke after too many labour years overspending against it's tax revenue and now needing to borrow internationally.
So borrow £40 000 000 000 at 2.5% is £1 000 000 000 per year or £16.67 per each UK person (60 000 000 population)
or was that £40 000 000 000 000 at 2.5% or £ 1 000 000 000 000per uear or £16 666 per UK person (60 000 000 population)
Depends on which billion they decide to use.
And this is only for RBS the other banks are likewise getting bailled out to lesser amounts.
So my guess from all this is that my tax bill will go up about £1000 a year to bail out the banks and the repayment will be spread over numerous years - any more than that and I'll move and they'll get no money!
Ian
Perhaps I should add Keith's disclaimer posted here!
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-parts-sale/26769-gt40-filler-caps-2.html
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
Paul,
Someone has to pay for the Lithuanian, Latvian, and Romanian health and old age pensions. Apparently the NHS in Latvia is now far superior the the equivalent in the UK.
Did they have a health service prior to 1st May 2004?
And as for Malta? Give me strength ......
And no - I voted against joining the EEC when we had the chance.
The Royal Bank of Jock? As Ian pointedly said, they do pay themselves some handsome bonuses and no doubt they will continue to find some way of doing just that.
Dave M
Someone has to pay for the Lithuanian, Latvian, and Romanian health and old age pensions. Apparently the NHS in Latvia is now far superior the the equivalent in the UK.
Did they have a health service prior to 1st May 2004?
And as for Malta? Give me strength ......
And no - I voted against joining the EEC when we had the chance.
The Royal Bank of Jock? As Ian pointedly said, they do pay themselves some handsome bonuses and no doubt they will continue to find some way of doing just that.
Dave M
Ian Anderson
Lifetime Supporter
What about the UK Government's latest attempt to kick start the economy?
They will drop VAT to 15% from 17.5%
Now all UK retail prices need to be shown inclusive of VAT so everything is already labelled!
Tesco sells a jumper in November for £10.00 that menas in December it must sell it for £ 9.78
So will they ass on the 22p drop - not likely as to reprint the labels and have them fixed on the garment will cost about 50p
(I work in the garment / accessories indusry and this is about right for labour and print cots)
And there is no compulsion for the retailers to pass on the reduction in VAT
You do the maths
So we, the UK taxpayer have just has an invisible VAT reduction (for one year only) and to pay for this we are to all face higher tax and national insurance bills in the future years - amazingly just after then next election is due! Just in time for them to say look who is puting up taxes.
The one thing that would have made a difference was lowering the overall cost of fuel (everything gets transported by road) but they reduced the VAT and increased the Duty on the fuel - net change is a slight increase!
How cose is Australia? Or perhaps New Zealand?
Can I awim there as I'll have now money left to buy a ticket afer all the tax rises!
Ian
They will drop VAT to 15% from 17.5%
Now all UK retail prices need to be shown inclusive of VAT so everything is already labelled!
Tesco sells a jumper in November for £10.00 that menas in December it must sell it for £ 9.78
So will they ass on the 22p drop - not likely as to reprint the labels and have them fixed on the garment will cost about 50p
(I work in the garment / accessories indusry and this is about right for labour and print cots)
And there is no compulsion for the retailers to pass on the reduction in VAT
You do the maths
So we, the UK taxpayer have just has an invisible VAT reduction (for one year only) and to pay for this we are to all face higher tax and national insurance bills in the future years - amazingly just after then next election is due! Just in time for them to say look who is puting up taxes.
The one thing that would have made a difference was lowering the overall cost of fuel (everything gets transported by road) but they reduced the VAT and increased the Duty on the fuel - net change is a slight increase!
How cose is Australia? Or perhaps New Zealand?
Can I awim there as I'll have now money left to buy a ticket afer all the tax rises!
Ian
RBS rents hangar space from the corporation I work for in CT, for their two US based corp. jets.
Nice bunch of guy's that wrench on them....
S
Nice bunch of guy's that wrench on them....
S
The US have always used the short scale, i.e. 10 to the power of 9 = One thousand million, whereas the Uk USED to use the long scale, i.e. 10 to the power of 12 = One million million, but presumably because it was of French origin 
tongue3, we abandoned that system in 1974 and reverted to the short scale like our US compatriots.
Ergo 1 billion in sterling is £1,000,000,000
Champagne anyone?
tongue3, we abandoned that system in 1974 and reverted to the short scale like our US compatriots.Ergo 1 billion in sterling is £1,000,000,000
Champagne anyone?
This was probably a typing mistake, but I believe that a billion in England is still one thousand million.
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>
</TD></TR><TR><TD>
Frequently Asked Questions
Words
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If you are American, it is undoubtedly 1,000,000,000. This amount is known to traditionally minded British people as `a thousand million', and by some more adventurous ones as a 'milliard', though this word has not made as much headway in English as in some other European languages. A trillion is then 1,000,000,000,000, and so on.
If you are British, on the other hand, a billion may be 1,000,000,000,000 (a million million), following the older convention.
If you are neither British nor American, you can take your pick! (Both systems were invented by the French, but are called 'British' and 'American' for convenience.) Once the business world and the financial press found themselves discussing `thousand millions' so much, the 'American' system simply became more convenient, despite a certain lack of logical tidiness. (A 'British' trillion is the third power of a million, while the 'American' one is the fourth power of a thousand, and the 'American' system continues out of sync with the arithmetic). It also makes the profits sound bigger! The 'American' system is now standard use in British government publications, and is becoming the norm in many other languages. <TABLE><TBODY><TR><TH></TH><TH>`American'</TH><TH>`British'</TH></TR><TR><TD>10<SUP>12</SUP></TD><TD>trillion</TD><TD>billion</TD></TR><TR><TD>10<SUP>15</SUP></TD><TD>quadrillion</TD><TD>thousand billion</TD></TR><TR><TD>10<SUP>18</SUP></TD><TD>quintillion</TD><TD>trillion</TD></TR><TR><TD>10<SUP>21</SUP></TD><TD>sextillion</TD><TD>thousand trillion</TD></TR><TR><TD>10<SUP>24</SUP></TD><TD>septillion</TD><TD>quadrillion</TD></TR><TR><TD>10<SUP>27</SUP></TD><TD>octillion</TD><TD>thousand quadrillion</TD></TR><TR><TD>10<SUP>30</SUP></TD><TD>nonillion</TD><TD>quintillion</TD></TR><TR><TD>10<SUP>33</SUP></TD><TD>decillion</TD><TD>thousand quintillion</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>In the 'British' system, it would also possible to use 'billiard' for 'thousand billion', 'trilliard' for 'thousand trillion', etc., but this has not so far caught on.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Frequently Asked Questions
Words
<TABLE class=blue cellPadding=7 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD>
How many is a billion?
</TD><TD width="25%">
<SMALL>
Printer Friendly Version</SMALL>
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Printer Friendly Version</SMALL>If you are American, it is undoubtedly 1,000,000,000. This amount is known to traditionally minded British people as `a thousand million', and by some more adventurous ones as a 'milliard', though this word has not made as much headway in English as in some other European languages. A trillion is then 1,000,000,000,000, and so on.
If you are British, on the other hand, a billion may be 1,000,000,000,000 (a million million), following the older convention.
If you are neither British nor American, you can take your pick! (Both systems were invented by the French, but are called 'British' and 'American' for convenience.) Once the business world and the financial press found themselves discussing `thousand millions' so much, the 'American' system simply became more convenient, despite a certain lack of logical tidiness. (A 'British' trillion is the third power of a million, while the 'American' one is the fourth power of a thousand, and the 'American' system continues out of sync with the arithmetic). It also makes the profits sound bigger! The 'American' system is now standard use in British government publications, and is becoming the norm in many other languages. <TABLE><TBODY><TR><TH></TH><TH>`American'</TH><TH>`British'</TH></TR><TR><TD>10<SUP>12</SUP></TD><TD>trillion</TD><TD>billion</TD></TR><TR><TD>10<SUP>15</SUP></TD><TD>quadrillion</TD><TD>thousand billion</TD></TR><TR><TD>10<SUP>18</SUP></TD><TD>quintillion</TD><TD>trillion</TD></TR><TR><TD>10<SUP>21</SUP></TD><TD>sextillion</TD><TD>thousand trillion</TD></TR><TR><TD>10<SUP>24</SUP></TD><TD>septillion</TD><TD>quadrillion</TD></TR><TR><TD>10<SUP>27</SUP></TD><TD>octillion</TD><TD>thousand quadrillion</TD></TR><TR><TD>10<SUP>30</SUP></TD><TD>nonillion</TD><TD>quintillion</TD></TR><TR><TD>10<SUP>33</SUP></TD><TD>decillion</TD><TD>thousand quintillion</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>In the 'British' system, it would also possible to use 'billiard' for 'thousand billion', 'trilliard' for 'thousand trillion', etc., but this has not so far caught on.
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Paul Thompson 'Hooligan'
Admin
Yeah - but when the vat goes back up to 18.5% - oops, sorry I mean 17.5% - I'm sure they'll put the duty back down again...
YEAH RIGHT!!! (and then I woke up)
"The British government will take over Royal Bank of Scotland Group PLC with a majority stake of almost 60 percent after the shareholders of the nation's second-largest bank shunned an emergency share issue.
The $31 billion rescue takeover, the result of a plan announced last month, means that dividends on common shares will be scrapped and top executives' bonuses will be canceled. Chief Executive Fred Goodwin has resigned and Chairman Tom McKillop, who last week personally apologized to shareholders for the 85 percent fall in the bank's share value, has said he will retire next year. "
It should be $31,000,000,000.00. I do not think the British have $31,000,000,000,000.00 to bail out a bank. AIG was $75B US and the complete banks/investment bail out up to now is $800B.
The $31 billion rescue takeover, the result of a plan announced last month, means that dividends on common shares will be scrapped and top executives' bonuses will be canceled. Chief Executive Fred Goodwin has resigned and Chairman Tom McKillop, who last week personally apologized to shareholders for the 85 percent fall in the bank's share value, has said he will retire next year. "
It should be $31,000,000,000.00. I do not think the British have $31,000,000,000,000.00 to bail out a bank. AIG was $75B US and the complete banks/investment bail out up to now is $800B.
