Tax the rich
- Thread starter Al Wohlstrom
- Start date
Ian Anderson
Lifetime Supporter
Pity that only covers the USA!
I'm certain the UK is at least as bad!
IAn
I'm certain the UK is at least as bad!
IAn
Brilliant video.
OK so I am not suitably educated in these matters, but this gets me thinking. I posted the other day how I thought the whole concept of trillions of dollars debt is flawed, print more mone blah blah blah.
Can someone explain to me who lent that ammount of money in the first place and did they really have any genuine expectation of the loan ever being paid? I can imaging the government applying for the loan..........
" You know we're good for it. We've got a tax rebate due in the autumn.We can pay you back then. Purleeeeze led us another two trillion".
Seriously, where does the money go when loan repayments are made? Lent out to other governments that can't pay it back?
I know I will look foolish for posting this, but would the world fall apart, really, if all national debts were simply just written off?
Imagine we all wake up in the morning and the newcaster says, " good news folks, there is no more debt"! How exactly would that change our plans for the day?
OK so I am not suitably educated in these matters, but this gets me thinking. I posted the other day how I thought the whole concept of trillions of dollars debt is flawed, print more mone blah blah blah.
Can someone explain to me who lent that ammount of money in the first place and did they really have any genuine expectation of the loan ever being paid? I can imaging the government applying for the loan..........
" You know we're good for it. We've got a tax rebate due in the autumn.We can pay you back then. Purleeeeze led us another two trillion".
Seriously, where does the money go when loan repayments are made? Lent out to other governments that can't pay it back?
I know I will look foolish for posting this, but would the world fall apart, really, if all national debts were simply just written off?
Imagine we all wake up in the morning and the newcaster says, " good news folks, there is no more debt"! How exactly would that change our plans for the day?
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Mark,
Al is known not just for hipocracy, but for posting rants against the left that are not true.
Be sure and keep in mind that this is the same guy who lied, misslead and made up stuff about the terrable Reno Air Race crash.
He starts with the words, no one is more evil in the eyes of a leftist than the wealthy. Is that true? Evil? No one more evil? That is an absurd lie!
He starts with a lie, why bother believing anything else he says?
As Al and Bobbie are quick to point out the Congress does the spending, so this billions of $ per day he is talking about is being spent by the Republican congress, does he mention that?
Al is known not just for hipocracy, but for posting rants against the left that are not true.
Be sure and keep in mind that this is the same guy who lied, misslead and made up stuff about the terrable Reno Air Race crash.
He starts with the words, no one is more evil in the eyes of a leftist than the wealthy. Is that true? Evil? No one more evil? That is an absurd lie!
He starts with a lie, why bother believing anything else he says?
As Al and Bobbie are quick to point out the Congress does the spending, so this billions of $ per day he is talking about is being spent by the Republican congress, does he mention that?
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Consider this. Would a giant like Microsoft have been able to grow the way they did in the mid eighties under the Carter regime when they really did tax the rich?
I don't believe a budget is in place, and the WHite House has not offered a serious proposal. Nothing from the Senate.
China holds a bit over $1 trillion in US debt and let the money to the USA at 0.5% interest. It will take about 50 years to double that amount. I am sure the Middle East, and Europe owns a good chunk of US debt.
I get that Dom, but my point is, so what!?
If it is logical to lend in the first place then does it follow to be equally as logical to continue to lend? Once it is clear the borrowers cannot cover the repayments, debt usually gets written off, sold off or at least reduced. So ultimatley, why bother worrying. Just keep lending and borrowing. As we often hear, it isn't size that matters. One trillion, two trillion ad infinitum. What is the problem.
It seems to me that the media report these issues to us dumb folk, in a way no differnt to Fred Smith can't pay his bar tab! Simply so we can imagine how terrible it is.
America can't pay a gazillion dollars back to China?! So what. They'll figure it out.
If it is logical to lend in the first place then does it follow to be equally as logical to continue to lend? Once it is clear the borrowers cannot cover the repayments, debt usually gets written off, sold off or at least reduced. So ultimatley, why bother worrying. Just keep lending and borrowing. As we often hear, it isn't size that matters. One trillion, two trillion ad infinitum. What is the problem.
It seems to me that the media report these issues to us dumb folk, in a way no differnt to Fred Smith can't pay his bar tab! Simply so we can imagine how terrible it is.
America can't pay a gazillion dollars back to China?! So what. They'll figure it out.
That's why Mark some people think the US and the rest of the Western world will see big inflation. Debt will be paid off in future years with less valuable dollars. All currencies will devalue against commodities like gold, oil etc. That's one of the reasons some in the US are pushing for drilling within the US territorial waters and on shore.
Howard Jones
Supporter
If you, your retirement account such as a 401K, IRA, etc. or your pension owns a bond fund, they all do, then YOU loaned the USA the money. Guess who doesn't get paid if the USA defaults.
By the way the bond markets are much larger in total assets than the equity markets, about double,,,,,,,,,,,Guess what happens if everybody defaults? Take it just a little bit further.........what if we just declare all the equity markets have zero value. THAT would be easier and LESS serious than a total bond default. Us stocks=15 trillion Us bonds= about 31 trillion. Worldwide these numbers are about the same ratio.
Now do you see why Greece is an issue? Or look at it another way. What if you sold your home and agreed to seller finanacing. Would you want to give your home away? That second mortgage you agreed to is a .............. bond.
Here's something to think about. The total bond market annual trading volume is about 300 quadrillion USD. What do you think happens if all that capital just disapears? Just try bartering your labor for saudi oil.............directly.
http://www.aametrics.com/pdfs/world_stock_and_bond_markets_nov2009.pdf
By the way the bond markets are much larger in total assets than the equity markets, about double,,,,,,,,,,,Guess what happens if everybody defaults? Take it just a little bit further.........what if we just declare all the equity markets have zero value. THAT would be easier and LESS serious than a total bond default. Us stocks=15 trillion Us bonds= about 31 trillion. Worldwide these numbers are about the same ratio.
Now do you see why Greece is an issue? Or look at it another way. What if you sold your home and agreed to seller finanacing. Would you want to give your home away? That second mortgage you agreed to is a .............. bond.
Here's something to think about. The total bond market annual trading volume is about 300 quadrillion USD. What do you think happens if all that capital just disapears? Just try bartering your labor for saudi oil.............directly.
http://www.aametrics.com/pdfs/world_stock_and_bond_markets_nov2009.pdf
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Well Mark, I believe China owns about half of our debt. I think they want us in the position of not being able to pay it back. This gives them power over us; and even now, every time we try to enact some sort of law to enforce fair trade between china and the US, China always threatens to sell its US bonds and flood the world with dollars...
You mention above that the debt is usually written off and no harm really comes from it. That does seem to happen with non-hostile European nations such as Greece. But I don't think this is going to be the case with China. Its obvious that China is gearing up for conflict, and they want some of our interests around the world. If I was China, I would use the great US debt as justification to take those interests... and then back it up with my huge military.
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Jim, I would like to hear your analysis of the video Al provided.
Totally agree John.
I was about to post along the lines of China manipulates the value of its currency anyway. They hold all the cards.
Our dilema is that our great leaders walked right into the trap, knowing it was there!
So accepting my utter over-simplifying of the systems in place, the west ought to figure out how to let themselves off the hook of debt held outside of China and screw China.
Howard I accept your points completely. However, your stance supports putting a band-aid on the wound. It does nothing to stop governments from repeat injuries.
There must be a way to re-think the whole system of how government funds a country. Rue one would be, don't sell assets to, or borrow from your enemy!
Rule two, no-one needs four refuse bins and we could switch the street lights out after midnight! I could go on, but no-one would listen.
I was about to post along the lines of China manipulates the value of its currency anyway. They hold all the cards.
Our dilema is that our great leaders walked right into the trap, knowing it was there!
So accepting my utter over-simplifying of the systems in place, the west ought to figure out how to let themselves off the hook of debt held outside of China and screw China.
Howard I accept your points completely. However, your stance supports putting a band-aid on the wound. It does nothing to stop governments from repeat injuries.
There must be a way to re-think the whole system of how government funds a country. Rue one would be, don't sell assets to, or borrow from your enemy!
Rule two, no-one needs four refuse bins and we could switch the street lights out after midnight! I could go on, but no-one would listen.
Oh, Barter labour for oil from Saudi? Why bother. 80 years ago they lived in tents and had nothing. They only have their wealth because we want their oil. We don't have to barter for it. If we can't afford to buy it, who will replace our demand? Oil is at whatever $ per barrell because we pay it. If we stopped because we can't afford it, they are more buggered than we are.
As far as I am aware, there aren't many cars in Peru! Will they sell it all to China? Not in my lifetime. Again I am over-simplifying.
Believe me guys, it is all bullshit really.
China has growing economy, because we keep letting them make everything for us for peanuts. Put a stop to that under national security measures and suddenly their ecomonmy doesn't look so good does it?
As far as I am aware, there aren't many cars in Peru! Will they sell it all to China? Not in my lifetime. Again I am over-simplifying.
Believe me guys, it is all bullshit really.
China has growing economy, because we keep letting them make everything for us for peanuts. Put a stop to that under national security measures and suddenly their ecomonmy doesn't look so good does it?
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Jim, The guy is just explaining how much money it takes to pay off the defcit. Republican congress? 2/3 of the government is Democrat. Give it a rest.
I think one of the ways that we could write off some of the China debt is by showing how they acquired it through unfair and illegal trade practices, thereby nullifying their ownership. We could also hold the Chinese government responsible for their blatant patent and copyright infringement, which is indeed co-opted by their government.
maybe... just a thought.
Cold wars with China are on the horizon....
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
I want you all to takea look at this chart. For those of you who have trouble reading charts since 1980 all the up is Republican and all the down is Democratic.
Click chart for briefing on Federal Debt.
In 1980 Reagan was President, during his term, the Republicans controlled 2/3 of the Govenment, the Presdident and the Senate. Al always says this was not Reagans fault, Bullshit, he cut taxes and spent like crazy.
Now move ahead to 2000, now we have BushII, he forces through a tax cut and starts two wars, the blue line goes through the roof.
You consevatives say that Obamas jobs bill is crazy because it has not worked, well tell us how trax cuts have helped the economy?
Take another look at that chart, once we got another Moronic republican out of power, the blue line has leveled off. Much of that has come from the stimulus and we need more.
Instead of taking from the poor and giving to the rich, I say we put people to work fixing America.
Two big tax cuts by Republicans and two massive increases in debt.
Reagan had 2/3 of the govenment, but you say it was not his fault. Thats just more hypocritical crap!
Click chart for briefing on Federal Debt.
In 1980 Reagan was President, during his term, the Republicans controlled 2/3 of the Govenment, the Presdident and the Senate. Al always says this was not Reagans fault, Bullshit, he cut taxes and spent like crazy.
Now move ahead to 2000, now we have BushII, he forces through a tax cut and starts two wars, the blue line goes through the roof.
You consevatives say that Obamas jobs bill is crazy because it has not worked, well tell us how trax cuts have helped the economy?
Take another look at that chart, once we got another Moronic republican out of power, the blue line has leveled off. Much of that has come from the stimulus and we need more.
Instead of taking from the poor and giving to the rich, I say we put people to work fixing America.
Two big tax cuts by Republicans and two massive increases in debt.
Posted by the hypocrit.
Reagan had 2/3 of the govenment, but you say it was not his fault. Thats just more hypocritical crap!
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