This is absurd - 54.5mpg mandate by 2025

Big-Foot

Randy V

Moderator-Admin
Staff member
Admin
Lifetime Supporter
I agree.. While it is techinically possible, it will drive the cost of cars up substantially and will have an even greater impact on the pricing of all fuels / energy. A fifty percent increase would have been too much. This is almost doubling the current requirement.
 
YerDugliness

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
Guys, it might not be as oppressive as it seems.

IIRC, the figures relate to "corporate average", not each, individual model.

If that is the case, some of the newer technology, which is promising mileage figures near 100 MPG, will bring that average up to the point that there would be room for a Viper or a Vette or a Ford GT in the corporate lineups...sure, there might be a "gas hog" surcharge on the cars, but IMHO they will still be available.

Myself, I like the idea of bringing the big oil companies to their knees...make them beg us to buy their product, not the other way around.

Cheers?????

Doug
 
L

Bob Fechter

Every time CAFE standards go up, more people die because the weight of their automobile goes down. You can't mandate that vehicles which we rely on to move products, and busses that move people are going to go down in weight, so when they inevitably collide, those little gumball machines get crushed.
 
L

Bob Fechter

YerDugliness said:
Guys, it might not be as oppressive as it seems.

IIRC, the figures relate to "corporate average", not each, individual model.

If that is the case, some of the newer technology, which is promising mileage figures near 100 MPG, will bring that average up to the point that there would be room for a Viper or a Vette or a Ford GT in the corporate lineups...sure, there might be a "gas hog" surcharge on the cars, but IMHO they will still be available.

Myself, I like the idea of bringing the big oil companies to their knees...make them beg us to buy their product, not the other way around.

Cheers?????

Doug
Click to expand...


How about we bring the government to their knees and not allow them to tax gasoline more than how much the oil companies get in profit for that gallon of gasoline? Who is "oppressing" whom?

Better yet, let them drill for the 300 year supply this country has.
 
J

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
The weight of vehicles has gone DOWN? Bob, please come back to the real world. No, they have not. 4 door "compacts" now weight 3000 lbs+. That whole CAFE-icide idea is silly.

And that 300 year supply ofoil in the Bakken and other places? Get back to us when it is economically feasible to get to it.
 
Jim Craik

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
lonesomebob said:
Better yet, let them drill for the 300 year supply this country has.
Click to expand...

Gee Mr Fechter, you say "let them drill for the 300 year supply", like all you need to do is drill a hole and pump out the oil!

Me Fechter, do you beileve that? Really?

You need to go on-line and search non-agenda based information, this "oil supply" you speak of looks a lot like rocks.

It will be many many years if not centuries before these rocks will economicly provide oil!
 
YerDugliness

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
lonesomebob said:
How about we bring the government to their knees and not allow them to tax gasoline more than how much the oil companies get in profit for that gallon of gasoline? Who is "oppressing" whom?
Click to expand...

Exxon/Mobil has a long string of quarterly profits that exceed those of any other company....and, yet, they still have not cleaned up the mess from the Exxon Valdez fiasco.

The government, headed at the time by Bush, allowed Exxon/Mobil to determine when they were done cleaning up, resulting in loss of livelihood for a huge number of working stiffs...yet, Exxon/Mobil continues to rake in the money like no other company in the world :thumbsdown: .

Let's tax the profits of the oil companies in a more realistic manner, I say.

I say a lot more stuff about the oil companies, but the mods would bleep it out, so I won't go there.

In the end, though, I like the idea that we classic/component car buffs, who occupy a very small niche in the overall petroleum market, might well be the only customers they have....huge petroleum reserves, very little demand....those are the things of which I dream.

Let the government go at 'em, I say....I know it isn't what you say, though, don't expect it will elicit any cheers from you, LB.

Doug
 
O

John Milmont

Guys, if the market for gas is a free one, the oil companies will always charge what the market will bear. If demand goes down, they will just produce less gas to prevent creating a surplus. Therefore, they will keep prices high. It happens even now. So, if we use half the gas, expect the price to increase to counter that.

I don't think that this 54.5 mpg standard is realistic and is more of a political move to win back (or at least get them to vote) the greenie weenie's that feel disenfranchised with Obama. I believe Cater also imposed a ridiculous fuel requirement that was supposed to take effect in 1995, but he wasn't in office to see it through.
 
M

Malcolm

Supporter
You guys need to check out Gordon Murrays latest cars, the T25 and T27. Look at the reasoning for doing it. This can be done. I think it is more a culture change rather than technology. Wendy and I are just buying a 7 year Fiesta made by Ford. It does 50 mpg on the urban cycle and 70 mpg on the long distance stuff. If you set a low target you won't make a difference when you hit it. If you set a challenging target then even if you only get close, you will have made progress.
 
J

Jon Briggs

But how good would it be for your Vett or GT to be as fun, as powerful, and still get 55MPG!

Its coming, its just that the engine noise might be on a CD.

100% of the torque, 100% of the time, its the future.
 
O

John Milmont

jonnyb said:
But how good would it be for your Vett or GT to be as fun, as powerful, and still get 55MPG!
Click to expand...
If by fun you mean the same level of performance? It simply wont be possible with 2025 technology.

If you want to make it happen, you better get on that dilithium crystal production..
 
O

John Milmont

That technology will never be cost effective.

For instance, carbon fiber technology has been around for quite a while now, since around the late 70's (even earlier in aerospace). The technology is 30+ years old now, so why doesn't every car have a CF tub today?

Remember when fuel cell technology was all the rage? I wonder what happened to that. I guess their still looking for a cheaper source of platinum...

At the very least, even if all of this technology comes down in price, you have to admit that its going to add a whole new level of complexity to the automobile. That alone is going to raise the price of admission...
 
J

Jon Briggs

To an extent your right, although McLaren are doing their bit to reduce the cost of CF cars.

At the moment the cost is prohibitive, and the technology not yet advanced enough to take fossil fuels out of the transport system altogether.

However, all your talking about is an increase to 55mpg in the next 12-13 years. Some powerful diesels are already doing well in excess of that in Europe. You might not like them, but they are here.

For what it's worth I think fuel cell technology is the future. Fill the car up with Hydrogen, and off you go. It gets rid of all the recharging issues and range problems associated with battery packs. At the moment the cost is stupidly high, and there are problems to be overcome in the transportation of Hydrogen. However, just as the cost of the internal combustion engine has come down since it was first invented. The cost of these other technology's will also fall. I fully expect to be driving a fuel cell car in my life time.

And don't forget, that cheaper source of Platinum is already in your catalytic converter.
 
YerDugliness

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
Keith1 said:
Yes, but that's if you still have one with all the thieving Pikey's around....:evil:
Click to expand...

Corrrect, Keith!

It has to be the factory catalytic converters, too...for good reason the thieves do not want the aftermarket ones, not enough platinum in them for the salvage operations to want to buy them.

The thieves have started hitting auto dealerships at night in Houston, using some sort of cutting device that severs the pipes in front of and behind the cat very quickly on the new cars and trucks. Just last week one of the dealerships opened only to find that 70 cats had been taken overnight, and not much time was needed, the security cams indicated that the bastards did their dirty deeds in less than 30 minutes...a crew of 4 or 5, it seems.

Perhaps the manufacturers could start stamping the VIN on the cats, like they were engraving VIN's on the Corvette T-Tops for a while? At least then the numbers on the cats could be traced back to the vehicle from which they were stolen and the perps, who have to show photo ID to the recycling yards that buy the items, could be apprehended.

Doug
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top