American Ambassador killed in Libya

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
Sad. Mob rule at its worst. How many million did the U.S. give Libya last year in aid? Over $50 million? All for people who hate your guts! What is the point?
Another Beatles song, cant buy me love. If I was the POTUS which I never will be, I would stop all foreign aid especially to the middle east and the Muslim countries and bring the troops home.
Leave the bastards to it, let them wipe themselves out.
My condolences to the families of all those the bastards killed.
 

Jim Rosenthal

Supporter
I don't think most Libyans hate us or would have done this. And I think stopping foreign aid to Libya would pretty much play into the hands of the people that killed the American ambassador and his colleagues.

I also think that making movies that hold religious figures up to public ridicule is more or less the equivalent of yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theatre. I think the people who killed the ambassador ought to be dragged out and shot. I also think the man who made the film about Muhammad which is evidently the source of all this unrest ought to be sent over to the Middle East to explain his movie to the folks who differ with his viewpoint.
 
The killing of our ambassador and three others in Libya is said to be military in the way it ways conducted. It has also been said that the Libyan army that was supposed to protect the embassy as was the Egyptian army in Egypt, may have told the attackers of the ambassadors move to another building where he and the others were killed. The attack and flag desecration at our embassy in Egypt was supposed to have been fueled by an anti muslim video made by some nitwit. The act is condoned by some. Can you imagine if the Catholics, Protestants, Mormons, Jews, Buddist, etc, etc, reacted the same way to comments or vidios about their beliefs? In the dark ages maybe, but not 2012. If muslims are talked about in any way, your a muslim hater. I don't hate anyone. I do have a problem with people with dark age beliefs reacting in an uncivilized way. I can remember when someone said that the Muslim Brotherhood was not a worry. Now they run a country that we give $1.3 billion a year to, Egypt. I take offense to the burning of my flag, the attacks on my embassy, my country, that's my religion!
 

Pat

Supporter
This is all so tragic. By all accounts the world lost a truly great emissary for peace and some noble companions. In looking at the video of the event, sadly, it appears he did not have a pleasant end. Thoughts and prayers for their loved ones.
I personally can't see how we could hold the government of Libya responsible when they really don't have any form of control over all the various tribal elements in the country. Given the call for revenge by Mohamed al Zawahiri over the drone attack on one of his Libyan lieutenants, my money is on Al Quieda as the culprit. The Libyan government is powerless to stop something of that nature. It will be a generation before stability is in place there.
A fair question is why the hell on the anniversary of Sept 11th, the recent drone strike on a prominent terrorist, and the threat from Zawahiri did the security for the late ambassador consist of only one or two guys??? From the fall of the Shah, the invasion of Kuwait, the existance/whereabouts of Iraqi WMD, the nature of the Muslim Brotherhood, the murderous regime of Assad our intelligence on this part of the world is pathetic and it’s costing lives.
Egypt on the other hand (as I posted earlier) is violating the peace accords with Israel with their armor forces and for some insane reason the U.S. is providing them assistance in the purchase of military hardware (in contravention of the rules for aid set by congress). What the hell do they need modern submarines for?? Tourists???


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Well, Veek, one problem is we have a President who prefers being on the Letterman show over giving an audience to Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu!
 

David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
Its a different mentality.These idiots wake up in the morning and don't have a life so they go to the mosque.
Their Immans tell them about this anti Islamic action and that blasphemous film and that they should seek reprisals agains the perpetrators. They have again darkened and sullied the reputation of nearly all Moslems wordwide.
Was it the methodists, the catholics, the protestants, or what ever other religion you can think of that has caused so much grief in the world over the last 15 to 20 years or so. OK - we had N.I. and the micks did some quite awful things (I was there in 1969 and 1970 at the height of the troubles) but I will never ever allow a Muslim
to go unchallenged any more and every 'blacksack' I see as a potential suicide bomber.
PC? Unfortunately it's coming home to roost and its your embassies that are being targeted right now. Ours will be next.
It's a fundamentalist objective to try take over and control every country they live in. Their Immans tell them so.
Every UK Miltary base has been on Heightened Alert for the last three months (since the beginning of June).

And - I don't really care what some of the people in the USA think about my post. The coffee has boiled over - its too late.
 

Keith

Moderator
I'd like to come at this from a different direction if I may. I would assume that the "film" is an excuse for this violent reaction and there would have been another convenient flashpoint further down the line such as dropping a piece of orange peel outside a mosque.

Some questions should also be asked regarding the failure of both intelligence and embassy protection procedures in this obvious hot zone.

The Muslim people are being exploited and have been exploited by everyone on both sides of the divide which makes retaliatory responses counter productive. We have seen Western actions both Iraq and Afghanistan lead to a huge increase in world citizens willing to join the fundamentalist armies. In this respect, the West has lost this round (for hearts and minds)

There is no doubt that whatever the West does now will not change a thing, so it would follow that the "Arab Spring" movement should be allowed to carry on with it's own organic process, including the Iran nuclear issue.

Behind all of this is the spectre of energy, and fucking around with a philosophy locked into the Crusade era will not advance us one bit.

The Middle East including Israel should be left to their own devices.

Finally, once again, "Freedom of The Press" or in this case The Internet has shot itself in the foot. If any newspaper of TV station had have published this "trailer" (for that is what it is, not the film) they would presumably been prosecuted under race hate laws.

I would ask, how is Google immune from race hate publishing rules?

And are they not partly responsible for all of this? UTube is becoming a cess pit.
 
Finally a "politic" thread where it is possible to read interesting opinions, may they be non PC, told with the right words!

And for once, I agree with Keith.

It was just an excuse!

Also agree with >TomP when he says that there is a "dark age" taste behind all this sh*t!

Last year, I saw a TV report made in Soudan, and showing Coranic schools where little boys are taken from their familly and "obliged" to "study" coran. The fact is that the "teaching" is nothing else than learn, by heart, all the coran.
Arab world has the highest rate of illiteracy. In this condition, it is easy for those crapy radical imams to preach whatever they want aboout Islam.

Dark Age / Middle Age. It's exactly what comes to my mind when I see this kind of things happen... Actually I think there is no more solution than wait a couple of century with the hope for a general education happening in this part of the world...

In a couple of century, there will be no more oil to fight for also.

Just my 0.02€ !

Olivier.
 
I'd like to come at this from a different direction if I may. I would assume that the "film" is an excuse for this violent reaction and there would have been another convenient flashpoint further down the line such as dropping a piece of orange peel outside a mosque.

Some questions should also be asked regarding the failure of both intelligence and embassy protection procedures in this obvious hot zone.

The Muslim people are being exploited and have been exploited by everyone on both sides of the divide which makes retaliatory responses counter productive. We have seen Western actions both Iraq and Afghanistan lead to a huge increase in world citizens willing to join the fundamentalist armies. In this respect, the West has lost this round (for hearts and minds)

There is no doubt that whatever the West does now will not change a thing, so it would follow that the "Arab Spring" movement should be allowed to carry on with it's own organic process, including the Iran nuclear issue.

Behind all of this is the spectre of energy, and fucking around with a philosophy locked into the Crusade era will not advance us one bit.

The Middle East including Israel should be left to their own devices.

Finally, once again, "Freedom of The Press" or in this case The Internet has shot itself in the foot. If any newspaper of TV station had have published this "trailer" (for that is what it is, not the film) they would presumably been prosecuted under race hate laws.

I would ask, how is Google immune from race hate publishing rules?

And are they not partly responsible for all of this? UTube is becoming a cess pit.

Keith, Are you saying that we should allow Iran to continue on its path to exterminate Israel as their president and Muslim leader have openly said they want to do? Should Muslims be allowed to do as they wish with their laws and honor killings etc. in England and the rest of Europe. Your thoughts on that?
 

Keith

Moderator
Who says they will obliterate anything? Why shouldn't Iran have Nuclear Power? It must be wonderful 'implying' that you will use this stuff and send the fear of God (whoever you support) into your enemies whilst secretly working on nothing more sinister than a Jack Daniels bottling plant deep within a mountain. No, I'm not in denial, but if the Nuclear Paradox is to work again like it has done for the past 65 years or so, then even the 'Mullahs' must know they are heading for MAD.

Muslims are not stupid. With stone age weaponry by comparison, they've beaten half dozen world class armies in Afghanistan and we cannot fight them (if indeed we have to) conventionally.

We must take the moral high ground, withdraw to our own borders and concentrate on our own strengths instead of bleeding it out on a pile of goat dropping infested sand. A strategic withdrawal, a change of pace and a new direction.

There would never ever be any doubt that if there were no oil, there would be nothing worth fighting over. The Arab countries need the money otherwise they have zero power and I know what you're thinking - you're thinking that China will bag all the oil. I think you would be wrong and many of China's future problems may well be familiar to us. Russia is not exactly best mates with the Mad Mullahs either, so here we have 3 superpowers with similar problems/interests, all we need is a bit of imagination and a future vision.

Israel is a proxy US State. By definition, that brings more enemies for the USA from the Arab world than any other factor combined. Israel definitely do not have clean hands in any of this and what's more, these Semitic tribes have been fighting this war for over a thousand years. Why on earth do we think we can fix it? Our attempts at fixing it including lines drawn in the sand have failed miserably, although we were not exactly assisted by History's biggest two mass murderers, JS and AH which has kicked off this latest round of 'Celebrity Tribe Wars'

Israel should now stand on it's own having fought for the right to exist and must continue to exist by negotiation. With the spectre of the US looming over them, peace will never be achieved. It might take them another thousand years but they must settle their own disputes.

This must sound like a hard line, but I am sick of this damned circular war without end.

As for honour killings - let me just say that the strategy of withdrawing to our borders so that Muslims can get on with running their own affairs and destiny, would undoubtedly mean that we would apply the fair & just laws of the United Kingdom far more robustly than they are at the moment.

Having said that, honour killings are also an alien concept to the majority of Muslims in the UK. As time passes, these medieval practices will too. In the meantime, British Police diligently pursue the perpetrators but are often hindered by a wall of silence from the Asian community in general.

It's time we looked after our own now and stop paying pocket money to rogue states to ease our former imperial conscience.

Enough already.
 
quote from the New York Times
Iran's conservative new president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, said Wednesdaythat Israel must be "wiped off the map" and that attacks by Palestinians would destroy it, the ISNA press agency reported.
That sounds like a peaceful nuclear energy quote?
The "Moral High Ground". That's what is getting soldiers killed, yours, ours, and allied, with stupid "Rules of engagement" etc. It's easy to sit in a cozy warm safe place and "armchair quarterback" all kinds warm fuzzy stuff to make you feel good about how the world should be.
 

Keith

Moderator
quote from the New York Times
Iran's conservative new president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, said Wednesdaythat Israel must be "wiped off the map" and that attacks by Palestinians would destroy it, the ISNA press agency reported.
That sounds like a peaceful nuclear energy quote?
The "Moral High Ground". That's what is getting soldiers killed, yours, ours, and allied, with stupid "Rules of engagement" etc. It's easy to sit in a cozy warm safe place and "armchair quarterback" all kinds warm fuzzy stuff to make you feel good about how the world should be.

Tom, the "moral high ground" to me is getting the fuck out where we don't belong and taking care of our own business for a change instead of trying to impose our 'alien' values on others.

At home, there will be only one 'rule of engagement' and at least if anyone gets killed, it will be for our own turf. So, what we doing on theirs?

I served with the British Army in Aden 46 years ago. It was dangerous and they hated us then. It's even more dangerous and they hate us x 46 more now.

Warm and fuzzy?

Not me my friend...

Finally, if rhetoric & bluster won wars, the Arab states would rule the world. I'm trying to say, if they want to act "rogue" let them start. THEN the war would be just. Until then, it's all gobshite - apart from oil, FEAR is their greatest weapon.

Jim, I ain't never have been a consevative as you know it, and as Tom says, you got zero chance.
 

Keith

Moderator
Guys bear with me again on this stuff. I know it's all probably been said before but if we all can stand back and look at the big picture, then the thing I really really don't understand is that Western society is losing the war against drugs. Period. Legalising the stuff is not an option. There is a compelling argument for green perhaps, but that's it.

Here we have a kind of "Police Action" in Afghanistan to introduce "democratic" values to the Afghanis and yet under the noses of many thousands of NATO troops with some of the best high tech military gear in the world, the drug trade continues unabated because in is a major export and brings cash in to the country. Have I got that right?

I mean, what must this look like in the Muslim world?

Double standards? Hypocrisy? Stupidity?

I know what it looks like to me - it's got a big yellow streak down it's back and it sucks.

I think the protests are a sideshow to the whole mess - we never had any respect from them anyway. All they want is the $$$$$'s.
 

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
I also have wondered why the poppy fields of afghanistan are allowed to exist.
Maybe some high up in NATO are benefiting from the drug trade?
Tom I am sure that Israel will not allow Iran to become a nuclear power.
 
I also have wondered why the poppy fields of afghanistan are allowed to exist.
Maybe some high up in NATO are benefiting from the drug trade?
Tom I am sure that Israel will not allow Iran to become a nuclear power.
If the US showed backing for Israel, it would act as more of a deterrent for Iran to do something irrational. If Iran decides to do something in a nuclear way to Israel, Iran will cease to exist along with anyone who sides with Iran. The Arab nations seem to have a very short memory as to the ferocity of Israel when attacked.
 

Keith

Moderator
. If Iran decides to do something in a nuclear way to Israel, Iran will cease to exist along with anyone who sides with Iran. The Arab nations seem to have a very short memory as to the ferocity of Israel when attacked.

But that's my point Tom, I don't think they're all daft, and that's why I doubt they would launch a first strike for that very reason. Israel would not need tacit US assistance to counter that threat - only if it became a boots on the ground issue.

And you're right, Israel has far more determination to exist and defend itself than any other nation on the planet and the capability and the neighbouring states know this.

I'm wondering why anyone would think that Iran will nuke Israel at the first opportunity. The more likely scenario (and one that has almost worked in the past) is provocation, and we all know Iran are good at that...

Given this, I am wondering why the USA stays as close as it does to Israel, because they are well able to fend for themselves.
 
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