HANS and the SCCA

[Pat]

Many of us that are SCCA club racers are subject to the 2012 mandated HANS device. I raced my formula car at Sebring two weeks ago and while there tried one on (30o angle). Bad news, the reclining position of seat and the rear bulkhead have me looking at my navel with the thing on. OK so I removed the top bulkhead and at least I could then see the top of the steering wheel and not much else. It also was a major ordeal getting out of the car. This is a bit disturbing since the fuel cell is beneath the seat. There isn't room to slide forward and the engine placement makes going back impossible.

Has anyone in tight reclining confines come up with a FIA legal alternative to HANS?

 

[Damian]

Veek I know that they make different degree's so you might want to check that out. http://hansdevice.com/shop_online/Choosing-and-Fitting-Your-HANS-Device
http://hansdevice.com/HANS-Pro-Series-Items?sc=2&category=-102 then I found this
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/group.asp?GroupID=R3
http://www.safetysolutionsracing.com/
http://www.safetysolutionsracing.com/pro-series/

 

[Ron Earp]

Lots of threads on this topic.

HANS... the other shoe's dropped - IT.com Forums

Time to write those letters - Head and Neck Restraints - IT.com Forums

I'll dig up some more later.

 

[Pat]

Thanks all.
This is really a mess. I have a friend who was at the SCCA BOD meeting when the issue was discussed and apparently there was little to no evidence that there have been club racing injuries that would have been prevented with HANS. Pro-racing is understandably a different story. The determining issue cited was the risk of litigation should someone be hurt. A counter argument from the formula car contingent was about the litigation risk arising from someone burning because the HANS, make exiting the car more difficult. Apparnetly there are also seat and window changes that impact the closed cars as well. The strong push from the membership was to make it recommended (vs mandatory) to no avail.
Then to add insult to injury, I read in the links you all provided the HANS has to be sent back to the factory every five years to get recertified. Like the two year seat belt replacement rule, it sounds to me like this may be a cash cow for the vendors. The FIA 38.1 guideline apparently was written by the HANS folks making it very difficult to make something competing without violating their patents.
In September 2007, I had my "big one" at Roebling Road. Wheel to wheel contact and I did two end to end flips in the car and then it pirouetted into three rolls on the ground. The entire time I was flying around, my thoughts were twofold - one, is sure was quiet and two, when I finally stop, I want to get out of the car as fast as I can in case something burns. The last thing I ever want is to be trapped in a burning car.
With the HANS tryout in my car, it was really, really difficult to climb out. There has to be a better way.

 

[Damian]

Private track days is about it. The financial downturn has hit the race sceen and there is plenty more of this to come. On a side note I am really happy that you survived that crash and are still at it!!!!!

 

[Don Hoffman]

I wish I had the hans or something like it years ago at the track. I had a bad wreck in 87, there's nothing like reaching up at night to grab a wad of hair to roll over with your head in bed, on bad days thats what is needed.
this might not be your case but you never know
personaly I don't like the part of the hans that limits the ability behind the helmet to get out the window.

 

[Pat]

Sorry to hear of your injury Don. It sounds like a chore to deal with and your input is really appreciated.

In discussion with the vendor at the track, he indicated that HANS is primarily focused on preventing Basilar skull fractures (due to the head violently being thrown forward). He indicated that it really didn't do much for side impacts as it wasn't designed for lateral protection. That protection is up to the fixed devices within the cockpit area of the car, roll bar padding, raised cockpit sides etc. or a neck brace as used by some.
My concern is the twofold, first; I want to be able to quickly exit the car and as you suggested, HANS seems to impede that.
Second, right now, HANS won't fit/work given my size and the design of the car.
Unfortunately, the HANS/FIA seem to be strangling alternatives.
Perhaps I'm a little more sensitized after Sebring as the attached picture was a fellow in my group. When I went by on the track, it was a complete fireball. Fortunately, he (and his HANS) were able to get out OK.

By the way, note the sponsor decal.

 

[Ron Earp]

Then to add insult to injury, I read in the links you all provided the HANS has to be sent back to the factory every five years to get recertified. Like the two year seat belt replacement rule, it sounds to me like this may be a cash cow for the vendors. The FIA 38.1 guideline apparently was written by the HANS folks making it very difficult to make something competing without violating their patents.

Yep. If you read more threads (and there are a lot) about it the Issac people claim their device is better but disallowed by the FIA language or SCCA language. Don't know about the status of the DeFenDer, or whatever the hell that thing is, and don't know if it is acceptable or even made any longer. NASA has required HANS for about two years now and maintains the escape timing limitations that the SCCA hasn't implemented. I suppose that is coming down the pipe one day.

I don't feel safer wearing a Hans, but with my setup I don't feel hampered in getting out of the car either. However my wallet is lighter, and I'm resolutely convinced the SCCA is an organization without vision or direction that is run by a bunch of folks who haven't raced in 25+ years. True or not I do not know, but it feels like a correct assessment.

 

[Ron Earp]

Doh. The dreaded SCCA renewal letter came today. You talk about an backward ass archaic process, this is it. NASA handles this so much better.

 

[Will Campbell]

Ron, what did the SCCA letter finally say?

I was an early adopter of the HANS (mine is so old it doesn't have any stinkin' SFI stickers- we didn't need them then when men were men!) and I actually do feel safer with it.

But I understand that protecting against one risk (skull fracture or neck injury from uncontrolled forward movement of the head) doesn't confer protection from all risks. So, yes, it does complicate getting out of the car, limits sideways movement of the head in the car so you can't swivel the head like you used to, and of course, does nothing for side-impact protection.

I personally think that is an acceptable compromise, based on the relative risks of specific events, relative rate of occurrence of those risk-exposed events, and available solutions for those (for example, the #01 SLC race car has a pretty elaborate NASCAR-style head brace that really limits head movement to the sides in an impact - and also really makes ingress and egress very much more complicated).

I agree that the 5-year recertification rule is essentially a revenue strategy, rather than a science-based approach to actual risk.

-Will

 

[Ron Earp]

Ron, what did the SCCA letter finally say?

Nothing out of the ordinary, standard PITA renewal.

 

[OhioMark]

Will,

I purchased a HANS device this spring, (before the rule) and haven't
had any issue's exiting my Protoform FV in the upright position. I have
needed some minor help getting buckled due to the lack of downward
vision with the Hans. My Hans also has the "Swivel" option which allows
me to continue to have motion in many directions with my helmet. When
I'm racing, I'm not aware that I'm wearing it but the Ingress/Egress reminds you that it's there. I would be lying if I didn't express concern about trying to exit the car if it overturned with the Hans on, but hopefully I'll never have to encounter that issue.

Mark

P.S.: That five year rule is nothing but a bunch of B.S. and hopefully
it will be rescinded.

 

[Tim Kay]

I just purchased and fitted a Hybid Pro by Safety Solutions. To soon to give any imput yet.

It is spec 38.1. It does not have the Hans extention above the shoulders that would potentially impede exit. It also claims to prevent against lateral impacts as well as frontal impact. Seem to be a alternate viable option to the Hans. Also, very comperably priced to Hans.

 

[J. Salmon]

I just purchased and fitted a Hybid Pro by Safety Solutions. To soon to give any imput yet.

It is spec 38.1. It does not have the Hans extention above the shoulders that would potentially impede exit. It also claims to prevent against lateral impacts as well as frontal impact. Seem to be a alternate viable option to the Hans. Also, very comperably priced to Hans.

I'd like to here more about this.

I have used a HANS for 3 years and have never had any problems with it. It takes a while to get all buckled in, but I can pop right out of the car (Formula Ford). My arm restraints are more difficult to get free. I do think the HANS is worth having, as a frontal impact while wearing a helmet is going to put a huge stress on your neck.

My problem with the HANS is lack of side to side protection. The Hybrid Pro seems a better setup.

I believe in fire suppression systems, but only as a way to buy more time to get the heck out of Dodge.

 

[Damian]

J I posted the links in the beggining of this thread with all of the info

 

[Randy V]

I've already most likely had my life saved by my HANS.... It is a PITB at first, but you get used to it. Really need to pay close attention to belt orientation and mounts so you properly secure the device. I also bought the sliding teather system and quick releases for it a couple of years ago and the difference was like night and day.
You may need some alterations made to your car if you are that tight of a fit to begin with..
Talk with your local SCCA Tech for advice. He sees a lot of cars and situations and is qualified to coach you in the right direction. NASA - I'm not so sure. Seems they are more about making money and playing the odds in order to do just that...

 

[Ken Wright]

I have a HANS and use it on track days but only because I can't get a Leatt Moto R brace.

HANS brace is designed to work in conjunction with a seat that has a head rest that wraps around the side of your helmet to prevent lateral flexion. Used without this kind of seat is is good only for frontal impact.

The Leatt is designed to provide a stable platform for your helmet (requires a full face helmet) that prevents flexion in all directions with minimal decrease in rotation.

It is not currently available. Info on the makers website indicates that while the standard for this type of brace is being finalized they will not sell them.

 

[Jeff Young]

Just to clear up some of the questions above ---


1. SFI 38.1 was written with some input from HANS, but not entirely. The problem with SFI 38.1 for the ISAAC (which attaches to your shoulder belts) is that it requires a single point of release for all belts/restraints, etc. The ISAAC requires you to release the device from your belts to exit. Most guys who know who have the ISAAC do not find it to be an impediment, but SFI disagreed.

2. The DeFender was sued out of existence by HANS.

3. I do not think anyone makes the Hutchens device any more.

4. Simpson makes the Hybrid Rage (It hink that is the name). It has a harness you wear over your suit that the device attaches to.

5. The issue with side impacts and the HANS was that the belts would sometimes slip off of the device. HANS has improved, but not cured this, with lips on the belt channels on the device.

It's like anything else I guess. Some of the HANS hate is justified, but not all of it. And, in the end, it is what almost all racing organizations are using (something that is 38.1 certified). From a liablity standpoint, they probably cannot afford to cut across the grain and allow non-38.1 devices.

 

[Pat]

Jeff, I was at the PRI show in Orlando this afternoon and the Defnder (sic) head restraint was for sale. It looks pretty promising.
It looks like a HANS but it's adjustable. It has an SFI 38.1 sticker on it. However it apparently is no longer in production.
DefNder: Your Necks Best Defense

 

[Jeff Young]

The Defender is done. HANS went after them for patent infringement.