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Old 2nd January 2013, 12:15 AM   #1 (permalink)
The Kyle
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Ultima GTR Vs SLC

OK I know the answers I get here will be Biased but why should I choose a SLC over the GTR?

I know I am going to build something; I was originally leaning to-wards the GTR just due to its very potent performance capabilities but also its looks.

What do I want is the criteria that should be mentioned. Well first of all I want a car that will fit me. I am am 6'4" and build like a line backer so room is important. I know if I was going to build a GTR I was going to add about 3 inches to the roof line. That would not be a big task for me, I also did not like the fact that the frame was mild steel; I would want Cro-mo so I would likely rebuild that too.

But I am not sure on the SLC's long term viability and in the end I want a take no prisoners performer; when you point at the score board I know the Ultima GTR performs well. Look at all the records; TopGear track times, 0 to 60, 0 to 100, 0 to 100 to 0 times.

I do really like the looks of the SLC but even with that I know I will be making some changes to the body.

I also war with myself when wondering how to build, a part of me really wants to build a bare bones street and track car, and another side of me wants to build in some creature comforts. Who wins is yet to be determined.


Thanks in advance for any constructive input you can offer.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 05:43 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Ultima GTR Vs SLC

I may not be the best person to answer your question, as I haven't built either one yet, but I was in almost exactly your situation a year ago, pondering the same issues.

My decision to go with the SLC was the result of several considerations:

1. RCR/Superlite is IMO on the cutting edge of tech development in this area, as evidenced by both the ongoing incremental improvements to the design, and the track results of existing SLCs.

2. A visit to RCR resulted in an overwhelming impression of "Holy ratfuck Batman, this guy knows what he's doing, and has the connections to tap into a vast pool of underemployed talent and manufacturing capacity in the Detroit area and beyond."

3. For a project of this magnitude, the proximity of RCR is MUCH more reassuring than that of a supplier that is literally on the other side of an ocean. This last point is important enough to me that if I lived in Slammingham instead of St. Louis, I'd likely have gone with the Ultima in spite of what I see as the SLC's superior design.

Hope this helps.

JR
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Old 2nd January 2013, 07:01 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Ultima GTR Vs SLC

Kyle,
I have read your posts over on PH so I know that you need a car bigger than the Ultima ...as you have asked about dropping the floor, raising the roof , extending the wheelbase etc etc ...Ultima now offer a tall guy chassis BTW...

If you want a Chromoly chassis you could just have one custom made....there are some very talented guys out there that can do just what you ask ...but it will not come inexpensively.

Our SLC race car is essentially the same chassis and geometry as our street car....and we have done a fair bit of record setting ourselves on real race tracks against real race cars in door handle to door handle racing....

We have no issues with taller/bigger guys fitting in the car...the seat shape itself is more of an issue but thats personal preference...we aso have an extended pedal box that we use on the race cars for more hand/wiggle room when working on the cars at the track..

Long term viability.....if you are going to change the GTR and change the SLC what does that really mean?

You may want to check into importation of the GTR into Canada too....not as easy as one may first think.
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Last edited by gt40fran; 2nd January 2013 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 08:52 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Ultima GTR Vs SLC

Quote:
Originally Posted by gt40fran View Post
You may want to check into importation of the GTR into Canada too....not as easy as one may first think.
This is key and a good point missed by many people.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 09:26 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Ultima GTR Vs SLC

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ross View Post
I may not be the best person to answer your question, as I haven't built either one yet
Ditto.

Both are race proven and look to have good factory support.

Ultima GTR
- More track record and many built, but an older design
- Doesn't look as flexible in terms of transaxles (I've not seen a Ricardo) - important for big torque
- I personally prefer the styling
- Potentially expensive and time consuming to get spares
- Steel chassis easier to modify, if you really need to

SLC
- More modern design with plenty of recent race form
- Lots of feedback on its high quality parts
- Styling appeals less to me, but I haven't seen an SLC in person, which would be a must
- A modern design (technically)
- Lots of shiny parts

I've deliberately not mentioned cost, as, given the time I'd invest, knowing that I got the best would be more important to me (within reason). It's a big investment in both money and time, plus your potential size issue, so you really need to try sitting in one - a factory visit if at all possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kyle
I know if I was going to build a GTR I was going to add about 3 inches to the roof line. That would not be a big task for me, I also did not like the fact that the frame was mild steel; I would want Cro-mo so I would likely rebuild that too.
That sounds like a lot of modification. If I had the time (which I don't ), I'd do a one-off build, designing the chassis and body. Another option could be to buy the chassis and make the body yourself, if you're making major body changes. It probably depends upon how long you can wait to drive it.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 09:31 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Ultima GTR Vs SLC

I looked seriously at the Ultima GTR, FFR GTM and the RCR SLC. They each have their Pros & Cons.
  • Ultima GTR has an all steel frame and steel suspension. It has impressive performance and it photographs well. I had a chance to take a close look at a completed GTR at the Cars & Coffee event in Irvine CA. The body is gel coated so painting is optional. IMO, the body panel fitment and general construction was ok, but not up to the standard I would expect for its cost.
  • FFR GTM has a steel frame and corvette suspension. I'm 5'11" and felt squashed in the cabin. It is tight both in leg room and in hip/shoulder room. I just couldn't get comfortable in it so I didn't think I would enjoy driving it. The tight hip/shoulder room is due to the huge center hump that houses the radiator lines, shifter, cables, etc. Owners have problems keeping the heat from the radiator lines from soaking into the cabin. The small driver door opening combined with the roll cage makes it chore to get in and out of. Owners say real life curb weight is about 2700lbs! The GTM is a very complete "bolt together" kit with everything you need including a full interior. The supplied interior is much better than it used to be, but IMO it's still sub-par. The body requires extensive body work and paint, which adds considerable cost. The GTM kit is about half the price of the GTR or SLC, but the additional cost of the Corvette donor parts, body/paint work and interior updates bring the total finished cost up to about the same as the GTR and SLC. The GTM is a street car that can be stripped to be raced.
  • RCR SLC has an aluminum chassis and aluminum suspension. It is the lightest alternative. Depending upon the engine, transaxle and driver comforts, owners report 1750 - 2500lbs. The SLC is a race car, that can be made streetable. That means the side windows are fixed and things like emergency brake, interior, adjustable pedals, etc are optional. Some fabrication skills are needed to build custom motor mounts, exhaust, etc. Compared the GTR and GTM, the SLC is spacious inside with lots of leg, hip, and shoulder room. I'm not sure about head room. The body is gel coated so painting is optional.
I selected the RCR SLC because I thought it had the best bones for a super car. It has ultra-light weight, true racing suspension, and can be made comfortable. I also think the SLC has the best looking body style.

Last edited by rumbles; 2nd January 2013 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 10:11 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Ultima GTR Vs SLC

<< owners report 1750 - 2500lbs >>

Someone has built a 1750 lb SLC?
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Old 2nd January 2013, 12:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Ultima GTR Vs SLC

Actually, it was a RCR 917 in race trim with Porsche power that is 1750lbs. I think the RCR 917 and RCR SLC chassis weigh about the same, so I made the leap. Fran, correct me if I'm wrong...

Last edited by rumbles; 2nd January 2013 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 01:05 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Ultima GTR Vs SLC

My words in red below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gt40fran View Post
If you want a Chromoly chassis you could just have one custom made....there are some very talented guys out there that can do just what you ask ...but it will not come inexpensively. That is where I come in, I would have zero issue's doing that myself; I own my own race shop that does such things all the time. Plane air frames both tube and carbon and Prolight Aussie special race buggies are common builds.

We have no issues with taller/bigger guys fitting in the car...the seat shape itself is more of an issue but thats personal preference... If worse comes to worse I will just build my own or cut and modify something to suit me.

we aso have an extended pedal box that we use on the race cars for more hand/wiggle room when working on the cars at the track.. How is it different, or do you just use a different version of the Tilton?

Long term viability.....if you are going to change the GTR and change the SLC what does that really mean? What that means is the US and world ecomonmy is absolute Poop, I have seen many specialty car builders just dry up and disappear over the years. Not likely that would be vehicle ending but it sure would be nice to know if the business will be around in 10 years when a guy needs a front clip or ______. Or lets say you die tomorrow (Sorry I do not wish you any harm) will the company close its dorrs with you???

You may want to check into importation of the GTR into Canada too....not as easy as one may first think. As far as I know the GTR is not even slightly different then your SLC, the thing you have going for you is the fact that you are at least on my continent.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 01:57 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Ultima GTR Vs SLC

The same version of Tilton pedals is used. It is bolted to a multi hole bottom plate to make it adjustable. This plate is sold as an option.

Frans race car uses a different version (bottom plate) that slides I believe.

The importation of my SLC into Canada was smooth. Bringing "kit cars" into Canada can be very difficult. You need to send a message to Fran at RCR to discuss this.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 02:16 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Ultima GTR Vs SLC

Quote:
Originally Posted by rumbles View Post
Actually, it was a RCR 917 in race trim with Porsche power that is 1750lbs. I think the RCR 917 and RCR SLC chassis weigh about the same, so I made the leap. Fran, correct me if I'm wrong...
I thought 1750 was the curb weight of a 'real' one? is the RCR 917 1750 also?
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Old 2nd January 2013, 06:32 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Ultima GTR Vs SLC

Quote:
Originally Posted by EFNFAST View Post
I thought 1750 was the curb weight of a 'real' one? is the RCR 917 1750 also?

Alex you are in Calgary Right. I would love to come see your car and check a few things out. You Got PM.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 07:18 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Ultima GTR Vs SLC

I'm a little smaller than you but also built like a linebacker, 6'3" and anywhere from 230-270 depending on where I am on working out. I'd ideally like to get down to about 215. At the current size/weight, I fit perfectly well in my c6 z06. I tried to go sit in a superformance gt40, and that was a joke of jokes, I could barely get a leg in there before I gave up. Would love to try a sl-c for fit, i've been up close and personal to a GTR and it was a tight fit at my height. I felt like I needed to be about 25-30lbs lighter to really feel good in there. there is a guy local to me in chicago , schwartzperformance, he's built a few of them and I got to sit in one of his a few years back at a car show. here's the spec on his build...http://schwartzperformance.com/ultim...win-turbo-ls2/


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Old 2nd January 2013, 10:33 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Ultima GTR Vs SLC

If you are going to spend the money why not get into a Ford GT. They have several advantages you might find worthwhile. They are quite roomy inside for a car as small as they are. Go over on the FordGTForum and look at the all the guys running TT setups making well over a 1000hp. They are appreciating like crazy and will be a car you can always get out of down the road if you ever decided to and not lose money and maybe even make some. They are fantastic cars in every way.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 10:35 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Ultima GTR Vs SLC

Thanks Michael...wink

Not alot of repair/replacement parts available for a Ford GT though....I know we make plenty of the NLA ones...and they are just regular items like control arms and brackets that get damaged and broken....
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Old 2nd January 2013, 10:39 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Ultima GTR Vs SLC

Quote:
Originally Posted by MHNCO View Post
If you are going to spend the money why not get into a Ford GT. They have several advantages you might find worthwhile. They are quite roomy inside for a car as small as they are. Go over on the FordGTForum and look at the all the guys running TT setups making well over a 1000hp. They are appreciating like crazy and will be a car you can always get out of down the road if you ever decided to and not lose money and maybe even make some. They are fantastic cars in every way.
Not my liking, I am just not into the replicar scene. As per a component car appreciating I just do not find that likey. And buying a real one is just not my thing either as I want to be able to enjoy and use my cars hard; doing that to an original car is not right, we have already lost to many of them to concrete walls.

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Old 2nd January 2013, 10:44 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Ultima GTR Vs SLC

Huh? I've clearly waded into an area that needs no assistance from me. Good luck with whatever you decide to go with.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 11:32 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Ultima GTR Vs SLC

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Originally Posted by MHNCO View Post
Huh? I've clearly waded into an area that needs no assistance from me. Good luck with whatever you decide to go with.



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Old 3rd January 2013, 12:38 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Ultima GTR Vs SLC

Honestly?

US/Canada - SLC.
UK/Europe - GTR.

Whilst I'm sure Fran *can* provide support over in the UK and I'm sure Ultima *can* provide support in the US/Canada.... I think it's best to go with the one that is more 'local' (although I realise local is relative).

If that wasn't an issue I'd go with the SLC all the way regardless of where I was in the world.
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Old 3rd January 2013, 07:25 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Ultima GTR Vs SLC

The Ultima has been around a good while and has the track records to back it, that said I personally think it looks its age now and is starting to suffer from lack of further development on both performance and aesthetic fronts.

When I got the Ultima (a CanAm not GTR) it was for sheer bang for the buck performance, where else could you get sub 3 sec 0-60 with 200 mph top speed for less than $100K.... well that was at that time, but now things have changed as Fran's SLC is on the scene. I went for the CanAm as I had other sport coupes and wanted an open top for a change, but also it offers unsurpassed headroom with a helmet on for tall guys, plus getting in & out is a cinch.

So if I was faced with the same decision today what would I do? I'd opt for the SLC, well no actually I wouldn't because I'd opt for Fran's new LMP replica!

Why? Because I don't find the Ultima (and possibly the same could be said for an SLC) fun (for me at least) to drive on the street, it just attracts way too much attention and there are very few places to really use it's performance. I refer to it as an 'inbetweener' not a street car for any length of journey and not a full out track car. It's a compromise which at this point has more track miles than street and I arrived at the conclusion a compromise isn't what I want, I need a sensible street car and a dedicated track car.....

On the factory support front the Ultima factory have always been extremely responsive (within the 8 hr time zone difference), yes there is a penalty to pay for overseas spares shipping, fortunately I haven't required anything too big & bulky.

That said Fran has on numerous occasions given me advice and leads through PM's and e-mail even though I don't even own an RCR car. I have no doubt his support to an RCR owner would be equal or better to that of the Ultima. As so many have pointed out being on the same continent has distinct advantages.

Good luck with whatever decision you make
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