New Upcoming RF Purchase (General Questions)

[MichaelHarvey]

Hi guys,

Seeing as I have a prospective buyer flying down here soon to buy my GT-350, I plan on ordering (or at very least putting a down payment) on a new RF kit.

There are several questions I have that need answering. (Bear with me, I'm pretty new to the GT-40 replica scene).

1. Which transaxle should I order to compliment a 302? What options are there? How much should I expect to pay for a good transaxle?

2. Is most of the hardware in the kit metric or standard? (Trying to prepare with the proper tools.)

3. Where should I look for the different rims for this kit (assuming they're not included in the complete kit.)

Thanks in advance,

-Michael

[patbarry]

Robert builds his car around the Audi 016 gearbox, but I know Simon is not using a 016 (ZF I think), so that is really up to you. All the suspension bolts are US, most everything else is metric. I bought wheels and tires with mine.

My experience is that Robert will put together exactly what you want, and if you need something else, he is ready and able to fill your specific needs.

I have been very, very pleased with everything in the kit. I did not want to search the world over looking for parts so my kit was pretty inclusive. You can have Robert supply as much or as little as you like.

Good luck!

[MichaelHarvey]

Thanks for the response. I'm really excited about this project and the only real concern I have is making the transaxle / clutch assembly operate properly since this is the only componentry that is foreign to me. It's really comforting to see such a strong support community for these projects.

[Mark Worthington]

Transaxle choice really depends on how much torque you intend to make out of that 302. The Audi 016 is cheap and plentiful and should be good for a 302 if you don't build a monster of an engine and if you avoid 4,000-rpm clutch dumps. If you want to run a lot of motor (say 400+ hp) you may want to look into a stronger transaxle, such as the Audi 01E or maybe have Robert configure your car to accept a Porsche or ZF transaxle.

[MichaelHarvey]

Thanks Mark. I'll have to talk with my dad and see exactly how crazy we're going to get with the motor. I personally think that a 302 with ~325-350 HP would be plenty for street use.

Are there large price differences between these transaxles? Is the standard RF kit pre-configured to accept either?

[Mark Worthington]

Well, the 2WD Audi 016 can be found in a junkyard for less than $200, but will typically require some cleaning up and a tear-down to make sure everything's OK. The 2WD Audi 01E is not available in the USA but they occasionally turn up on the German Ebay site for between 500 and 1,000 Euros, otherwise you could probably find one for about $5,000 in Europe. Both of the Audi boxes come from the factory with an open differential so you will probably want to retrofit either one with a limited-slip differential at a cost of up to $1,,500 (for a Quaife). I know Robert has adapter parts available for the 01E; you'll have to contact him for specifics and pricing.

I also know there are a couple RFs fitted with ZF transaxles ($4,000 to $8,000+ for the box). I'm not sure if Robert has set up any RF chassis for the Porsche G50/50 gearboxes, which typically run between $2,500 and $4,500, and which are known to be quite strong.

[MichaelHarvey]

With that in mind, I think I'll go for a rebuilt 016 with a limited slip differential. I believe the engine I'm going to go with will be a Ford Motorsport 5.0L crate engine (345 HP). I don't plan on launching it or dumping the clutch ever, so I think it will fit my bill for general street use.

Who should I talk to about buying a refurbished or new 016 unit? And who deals with the Quaife LSDs?

Thanks,

Michael

[Mark Worthington]

Robert sells the Quaife LSD as one of the options for outfitting the deluxe kit (last time I checked the RF website, anyway). I think the 016 will be a good choice for your application. I hope to buy an 01E this summer, at which time I will have my 016 for sale. Mine has been fitted with a 3.73 ring & pinion from a Porsche 944, so it has better gearing than most of the 016 boxes available from junkyards in the US. There are plenty of other sources including junkyards and ebay. Lots of 016 boxes on the German ebay site.

[Tim Kay]

Micheal,

I have a friend selling his Audi Quatro V3 5 speed. It came out of his CAV(mono!) It's in perfect condition. He want's $1,000 plus frt.

He exchanged it for the same box but different gearing.

[MichaelHarvey]

Thanks for the offer, Tim. Is that tranny similar to the 016? I still need to do my homework to find out what is included with my RF kit in regards to shifter linkages, tranmission adapters, etc. If I can indeed use that setup, I may get back to you.

[Tim Kay]

Micheal,

My understanding (someone here on the forum please correct me if I am wrong) is the 016 covers all model numbers i.e. 3v,3q,3u,3k,5n,azz. The 3u, 5n and azz being the most common here in the states. The gear ratios and final drives differ between model numbers.

Do a search for 'gear chart' and you should be able to find a pretty comprehesive chart that Gary Gibbs once posted.

[MichaelHarvey]

Tim,

Thanks for the clarification. I found the chart and I posted it on my website so I wouldn't lose it. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

http://www.gt350.ogsth.com/trans_gears2.pdf

That being said, is that transaxle an AAZ?

[Tim Kay]

I'm told it's a 3V which appears on the chart to have the same gearing as the AZZ other than a very slight difference in 5th gear.

[Dan Weilacher]

I doubt it was a quattro version of that box in the CAV.
The RF deluxe kit comes with the gearbox adapter, clutch, slave cylinder, cv's half shafts ,and all the shift linkage for the 016 .All you need is the box itself.
Tim if you would like to chat on the phone with someone that got a deluxe kit this past summer drop me a email and we can exchange numbers and such. Be glad to help you out where I can.

[Ron Earp]

The 5N and AZ(Z) boxes are quite common. The 3U is rare as rocking horse sh%& since it is a diesel box and diesel Audi 5000's were never sold in the US.

I bought two of these back from Germany in 2002, one of which I gave to Hershal for working on my car with me and one of which I sold to Pat Barry at my cost. Best ratios of the 016 boxes by far, but not obtainable in the US.

Michael, just get A box and build the car. Sort the BEST box out when the thing is driving.

I still maintain that it might be cheaper to not worry about the box. Most everyone is concerned with 1st gear being so short and top end being low. But, everyone is sticking to a 6200 or 6500 RPM rev limit too. You can build a Ford SB with a very short stroke lending itself to high RPM. Use a solid roller cam and make power to 7500RPM, check the charts, and volia, the gearbox is now more acceptable.

[MichaelHarvey]

Thanks for the advice, guys. I'll probably just go ahead and order the kit and find a 016 to start off with.

A high-rpm 302 could be very fun on the street...I would just probably have to pick a cam that will still maintain a streetable idle.

Any idea on how many man-hours goes into the average RF kit buildup? My dad and I did a complete rotisserie restoration on my '66 fastback that took us 14 months' worth of weekends. This included stripping the car COMPLETELY and welding in all new floors, lower quarter panels, and door panels. We're pretty familiar with basic fabrication and welding.

[Mike Dozier]

Mike

One thing you'll probably want from RF is one of their
.64 ratio 5th gear assemblies for the 016.
This drops the rpm in 5th to allow comfortable highway speed. Hershal says they're making a new batch and quoted
$ 500.

Another possible 016 option is to buy a complete new rebuilt 016 from German Transaxle of America with a new 3.37 Porsche ring/pinion. This increases the usable rpm
range in all 5 gears. GTA will announce price/availability
of these boxes in about a month.

MikeD

[MichaelHarvey]

Thanks for the information, Mike.

Has anyone posted a list of which year and model Audis the 016 was used in? I'd like to make some calls to some of the local junkyards to see if they may have a core or useable transaxle.

[Ron Earp]

84-87 will get you what you need. Just ask for Audi 5000s in those years, you'll find lots of them.

Ron

[Mike Dozier]

The junkyard may ask whether you want/need any of the
clutch parts.....the answer is no. Don't need the mounts
either....just the tranny.

MikeD