How much HP is too much for an SLC? Does anyone run supercharged LS motors?
Whats too much Horsepower for an SLC?
- Thread starter TXDave26
- Start date
I was reading about an "ultimate LS7". It's an LS7 with the LS9 supercharger.
Would this be a bit of overkill? Horsepower to weight ratio would be amazing!
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/camaro_now/sucs_1130_supercharged_ls7_engine_build/viewall.html
Would this be a bit of overkill? Horsepower to weight ratio would be amazing!
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/camaro_now/sucs_1130_supercharged_ls7_engine_build/viewall.html
Howard Jones
Supporter
The correct question IMHO is what combination of grip and power will result in the best balance over a given lap. The blend of corner speed off power (max rolling grip at the apex), max grip under full power at low speed (1-3 gears) and max deceleration grip under braking will produce the best overall balanced car.
Street tires will limit all of there to just a red c&*% hair beyond 1G. For a street car I agree with Rumbles. Something between 4 and 5 hundred HP. Race cars can add almost double that. Call it nearly 4 to 1. Most armatures like me would do well not to drive real 900Hp cars in anger.
A good compromise is to run street power, lets say 450HP and spend the money on brakes and a second set of wheel for slicks at the track. That way you can make up all the time you want on the brakes, grip into the corner and through the center but still be able to handle the center off part of the corner without needing to control to big HP overseer. My hands are just not that quick anymore. If you are over 40 yours aren't either.
NONE of this should come into play on the street. "You will put your eye out kid" if you get my meaning.
Street tires will limit all of there to just a red c&*% hair beyond 1G. For a street car I agree with Rumbles. Something between 4 and 5 hundred HP. Race cars can add almost double that. Call it nearly 4 to 1. Most armatures like me would do well not to drive real 900Hp cars in anger.
A good compromise is to run street power, lets say 450HP and spend the money on brakes and a second set of wheel for slicks at the track. That way you can make up all the time you want on the brakes, grip into the corner and through the center but still be able to handle the center off part of the corner without needing to control to big HP overseer. My hands are just not that quick anymore. If you are over 40 yours aren't either.
NONE of this should come into play on the street. "You will put your eye out kid" if you get my meaning.
Alex....hush.....thats total BS.
Its no fun to be tiptoeing on the throttle pedal when you come out of a corner or even on a straight road...its much more fun for the driver to be able
to "drive the car" and not have the engine drive the driver....and bury the pedal to the floor on occasion...these are closed track antics of course...
Keep in mind we won the SU championship with less than 550hp against much more powerful cars...its all about the balance and the overall package...
Its no fun to be tiptoeing on the throttle pedal when you come out of a corner or even on a straight road...its much more fun for the driver to be able
to "drive the car" and not have the engine drive the driver....and bury the pedal to the floor on occasion...these are closed track antics of course...
Keep in mind we won the SU championship with less than 550hp against much more powerful cars...its all about the balance and the overall package...
Good on ya, Howard!
The best advice I have been given here on the forum was to go as light as possible and get the biggest brakes I could find....the member who gave that advice ended it with "...they will never catch you!"
I believe it! For me it'll be an alloy block when I get the chance...light weight has advantages ALL ROUND!
Cheers!
Doug
'Couldn't agree more...up to a point. For me acceleration is the goddess one worships. So, for me, because I'm a 'street only' type of person, it's the most h.p. and the stickiest tires one can put together that do the deed. When I want to pass, I want to PASS...whether the other guy wants to allow it or not.
Yep...I'm a Dillinger-type in that regard. I admit it. I'll only suffer a road hogging jackass for just so long...I just won't risk life or limb (mine or anyone else's) to get around wunna those jerks unless conditions fully warrant...
Larry, the drama that you describe is NOT really happening out there. People will always move at different speeds on public streets. In everyday traffic just find a path and a speed and position that allows for the very fewest speed changes, and move along without any 'mental' confrontations with anyone.
If you want to perpetuate aggressive mental dramas into cars, drive on the track instead. And there you will be served up your own humility time after time. It's actually much more healthy in the long run than some distorted mental street 'victory' you seem to relish.
If you want to perpetuate aggressive mental dramas into cars, drive on the track instead. And there you will be served up your own humility time after time. It's actually much more healthy in the long run than some distorted mental street 'victory' you seem to relish.
You're over-analyzing, sir...
One of my 'issues' is with drivers who'll sit the passing lane pacing the guy in the right lane - mile after mile - doing 5 to 10 mph UNDER the speed limit while REFUSING to get out of the way of faster traffic. DON'T TELL ME that "is not really happening out there"! I see it happening every day...as do, I would suggest, most on this board!
One of my 'issues' is with drivers who'll sit the passing lane pacing the guy in the right lane - mile after mile - doing 5 to 10 mph UNDER the speed limit while REFUSING to get out of the way of faster traffic. DON'T TELL ME that "is not really happening out there"! I see it happening every day...as do, I would suggest, most on this board!
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That's a pretty broad question with out any details of your intended use. I would say it's too much when it becomes unusable and makes you go slower for your motoring event.
Otherwise there is no such thing as too much power.
My next RCR build will be Twin Turbo 1500hp+ build for 1/2 mile and mile events. It would probably be pretty slow around a road course though.
Otherwise there is no such thing as too much power.
My next RCR build will be Twin Turbo 1500hp+ build for 1/2 mile and mile events. It would probably be pretty slow around a road course though.
I can agree with some part of almost everything written here in a given situation and would reinforce the statement "it depends on what you are using it for"
Nothing is more annoying than a (insert oblivious or controlling type here) exercising their god given right plod along in the left lane or two diesel rigs having a side by side slow race for miles on end down interstate 5.
I have never had ''too much horsepower" on a road race track (200 hp motorcycle) but I can also say that same engine is simply a pain and too powerful at normal speeds on the street, period. And 1/8th throttle is all one would ever use.
Getting out on a racetrack is the best experience there is for the driving enthusiast, do that enough and the desire to drive fast on the streets just evaporates. You quickly realize any kind of fast on the street is plain butt-ass-slow on a track.
Nothing is more annoying than a (insert oblivious or controlling type here) exercising their god given right plod along in the left lane or two diesel rigs having a side by side slow race for miles on end down interstate 5.
I have never had ''too much horsepower" on a road race track (200 hp motorcycle) but I can also say that same engine is simply a pain and too powerful at normal speeds on the street, period. And 1/8th throttle is all one would ever use.
Getting out on a racetrack is the best experience there is for the driving enthusiast, do that enough and the desire to drive fast on the streets just evaporates. You quickly realize any kind of fast on the street is plain butt-ass-slow on a track.
Howard Jones
Supporter
Here's an idea. Have a look at the track record for your favorite track for the spec Miata class. Then take your steed out and run those times. Be prepared to eat humble pie. I have to run my GT40 HARD! to go much faster on most tracks. Granted I'm on street tires but never the less a class record Miata, driven by a top tier driver is very hard to out run.
It's not the power, it's that they never slow down. So put the 500ish HP LS3 in your SLC along with the ZO6 wheels and tires and you will be completely satisfied.........That's honest advice...........Really...
It's not the power, it's that they never slow down. So put the 500ish HP LS3 in your SLC along with the ZO6 wheels and tires and you will be completely satisfied.........That's honest advice...........Really...
Stacy David has gone one better and is (was? where IS it?) building an LS7 TT powered SLC on "GearZ". When/if it'll ever see completion is anyone's guess. I can't even find anything 'current'(?) about the TT part of the build on his site now (but maybe I missed it)...except for a brief reference on the car's spec sheet:
Twin turbos, waist gates, valves, etc TURBONETICS, INC.
Turbo system design and fabrication SCHWARTZ PERFORMANCE
If one is going to go with forced induction, one would think the predictable boost of a supercharger would be preferable on a track to dealing with 'lag' of a turbo setup. 'Just MHO.
In response to the OP, I would say "it depends." Far more relevant than peak power is how the power builds. After discovering that turbos could make crazy HP in our bikes and cars about 35 years ago (in my case), people have spent a lot of time getting that power to build smoothly and in a linear fashion (flat torque curve.)
I have not (yet) driven a car with a mega-HP turbo motor built by one of those wizards that have figured out how to engineer the boost controllers, wastegates, blow-off valves, and electronic trickery to create a motor that behaves like a high performance NA motor with three times the displacement.
That said, I have always liked big NA motors on the street. The power delivery is smooth and predictable, and the bigger the displacement (all else equal), the more the torque at any given RPM. For street driving, there is nothing I enjoy more than to push down on the accelerator while the engine is loafing, not touch the shift lever, and have the car feel like it got suddenly hooked to an extremely large rubber band stretched out to the horizon. Engines with big, flat torque curves do this. Engines that make six to eight times the HP at 6000 RPM as they do at 2000 RPM do not.
The engine I had built for my SLC is a 442 inch NA LS motor that makes 522 HP @ 4500 RPM. I intend to track the car, and may find I'd turn quicker times with a more modest motor, given my limited abilities. But my car will NOT be track-only, and I am sure that my car will put a much bigger smile on my face when I come upon a long, deserted, uphill section of road than it would if I had decided to go with a smaller motor.
JR
I have not (yet) driven a car with a mega-HP turbo motor built by one of those wizards that have figured out how to engineer the boost controllers, wastegates, blow-off valves, and electronic trickery to create a motor that behaves like a high performance NA motor with three times the displacement.
That said, I have always liked big NA motors on the street. The power delivery is smooth and predictable, and the bigger the displacement (all else equal), the more the torque at any given RPM. For street driving, there is nothing I enjoy more than to push down on the accelerator while the engine is loafing, not touch the shift lever, and have the car feel like it got suddenly hooked to an extremely large rubber band stretched out to the horizon. Engines with big, flat torque curves do this. Engines that make six to eight times the HP at 6000 RPM as they do at 2000 RPM do not.
The engine I had built for my SLC is a 442 inch NA LS motor that makes 522 HP @ 4500 RPM. I intend to track the car, and may find I'd turn quicker times with a more modest motor, given my limited abilities. But my car will NOT be track-only, and I am sure that my car will put a much bigger smile on my face when I come upon a long, deserted, uphill section of road than it would if I had decided to go with a smaller motor.
JR
I currently drive a 96 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX that put 521HP down on a Mustang dyno. For the guys I know in Houston TX I'm still not fast enough. Too many GTR's, Supras, Lambos, GT40's etc... But I guess what I'm not thinking of is the HP to weight ratio. At first my thoughts were to build an SLC with at least 800HP. I'm starting to realize that might be just a bit overkill! Now that being said it will actually help lower my budget. No need for a $18k LS9 when I can run a built LS3 for $10k
I bet if Ryan Ellis was in a V6 NA 300rwhp SLC and just about any one of us was in a 500rwhp+ SLC he would crush us on the track. The great thing about less hp is that it makes us way way better under breaking and cornering. So how much is too much I think depends on how good a driver we are. For me, I think I might be in the 300-400rwhp range, yet I am building a car with 500-600rwhp, yet it is higher rpm wheel hp and linear tq so it might be easier to drive. I plan on having traction control to help.
So my anwer is anything more than 600rwhp is just crazy insane and overkill, but sure would be nice to have at times.
So my anwer is anything more than 600rwhp is just crazy insane and overkill, but sure would be nice to have at times.
Too much horse power is when you accidentally hit the gas pedal a little to much, say when adjusting your seat, that the car instantly smokes its tires and you lose control because you just weren't ready for it..
This happened to a guy i know who's mustang had 700hp at the wheels...
This happened to a guy i know who's mustang had 700hp at the wheels...
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