GT40s.com Forum - Potential Changes

Ron Earp · 02-23-04, 08:03 PM

Greetings All,

www.gt40s.com has been a lot of fun to watch grow over the years and it appears that we’re getting ready to see an explosion in interest in GT40s. I think we’ve got enough forum space to cover all interests here and we’ll add more forums as needed. In the last week we’ve added forums for the new GT due to all the posts on the car appearing in the normal GT40 forums. I’ve also added a special forum for GT40 Look-alikes so that those folks with these types of cars will have a place to call home. In short – we’re growing and I think that is a fantastic thing!

However, after a fair amount of time running the forum and watching how the online community has grown I think I’m going to have to change the way the forum is “run” in a sense. Our bandwidth requirements are beginning to be quite large with the advent of picture hosting and will shortly cost us more money on a monthly basis. I sort of knew it would but I think the utility far outweighs the cost. And, it doesn’t appear the members are limited by bandwidth very much. According to statistics very few are on dialup now so it appears you folks like pictures!

At any rate, the forum has existed in the past on contributions from dedicated enthusiasts. These noble folks aren’t posting the most, aren’t the most vocal, don’t have the fanciest cars, and some don’t even have GT40s. They just want to see the forum continue, as do I, due to their love of the cars. Funny how that works out sometimes, the little guys offer the most support.

However, as pointed out by some members one of the biggest beneficiaries to of the forum are the replica manufacturers themselves. ERA, CAV, DRB, RF, and others are well represented on the forum and certainly have a good captive audience of potential customers. From my standpoint it’d certainly be a lot easier to accept funds from a few interested companies than from many individual sources.

One way to make this situation work for both parties is for the forum to offer banner advertising space to the companies that wish to pay for the service. This helps run the forum and helps the advertising company. However, in the past I’ve been against this type of thing because I hate slow sites and I hate waiting for banners to load. So, I’ve avoided that as much as possible.

Another way to handle it is to offer the manufacturers their own forums on the website for their customers. I’ve done this with RF since the beginning as Robert Logan of paid for the privilege after seeing the utility of it within a few months. CAV has a free section for the moment that serves a similar role.

So, I think what I am going to do is offer the manufactures a forum section of their own for a fee that they can moderate and use for their customers. They can choose to make it fully moderated – that is, only their members can read or it can be completely open. Additionally, we’ll offer banner ads for interested companies but I’ll make this work by pulling some bandwidth on the front page somewhere else – probably with the shout box. I don’t want a banner ad to increase your page loading time – that is a big pet peeve with me so you can rest assured I won’t let it happen. I’ll carefully control size, colors, and content so it makes a point but is non-intrusive. And, no, you won’t be seeing ads for Viagra and other such stuff. Just GT40 car related info, that is it. A very small pool.

Please, any comments on the issue? And before anyone asks we’re fine for cash on the forum right now so we don’t need donations. I’m just trying to cover what I see as becoming a potential issue in the future – funding, time, and interests of the forum.

EarlAbsher · 02-23-04, 08:25 PM

I have a lot of background on this very situation. Once upon a time, I was an Administrator of a large car forum, large as in over 40,000 members. We have 'free' webpages for members, which meant free webhosting of pics. The bandwidth was huge.

Supporting vendors helped pay the bills. Of course, when you start having supporting vendors, you need to police the site to make sure non-supporting vendors don't advertise their wares. To allow them to do so would be unfair to the supporting vendors.

I've since started my own 'litte' car website. We don't host pictures because of the bandwidth situation. I have just over 800 members. No one has complained. Part of the reason no one has complained is that there are many free hosting sites out along with some real inexpensive sites to host pictures. A popular site (real cheap) for hosting pics is http://www.villagephotos.com

Village photos even has a free service.

When a picture is posted on a forum, if the picture is hosted from another site, it doesn't affect your forum bandwidth. It's just when a pic is posted that is hosted by the forum that your bandwidth gets ate up. Then you have those who will direct link a pic hosted on this forum to other sites. I know you probably know this already, I just thought I'd throw some detail in it for those who aren't aware how this works.

Now, in regards to the slowness of loading if you use banners. That is usually more of a server problem than anything else. Granted, dial up can be a pain, but a faster server sometimes will help. But, like anything else, money gets involved when you do this.

The amount that you could charge vendors, based upon the activity here, should take care of any bandwidth usage. Heck, and then some. Hey, you own the place, if you make a buck or two off of it, more power to you.

Ron Earp · 02-23-04, 08:37 PM

Good points and thanks for the comments. We used to not have picture hosting but having it made life a lot easier - you don't want to know how many times I answered the email "how can I post pictures" or "why won't my imagestation pictures show up". Man, it was a lot! So, I'm aware hosting remotely causes no bandwidth increase but it makes lot of other issues - support, disappearing pictures, and whatnot.

My intention with this site isn't to make cash but to just make sure it runs and has funds to continue. Which it does. It simply appears to me the manufactuers can help support the site, get use out of it, and allows the users to continue using the site without worrying about contributions.

Steve Toner · 02-23-04, 08:42 PM

Ron,

If you go the ad route, I'd like to request that you *not* allow Macromedia Flash ads. They are annoying, they eat resources, and they have a tendency to crash workstations (especially those that try to live in a Flash-free world).
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

EarlAbsher · 02-23-04, 08:50 PM

The picture 'disappearing' usually happens when someone uses a poor 'fly by night' webhosting service.

Personally, I use Village Photos. Never had a problem.

I don't make anything off of my site. Like you, I could care less about doing so. But if I was getting bandwidth issues that would make it difficult for my wife to go shopping, I'd have to make changes.

A sticky thread on how to post pics, with full details, should take care of the individual emails and problems. Of course, the moderator for that section would have to keep an eye on it as the person in need usually wants a very fast response.

I'm on here a lot. If I saw such a request, even though I'm not a mod, I'd be happy to help the newbie out. I'm sure others here feel the same way.

What you are doing here is a great service to the GT40 community. This has to be a fun thing for you to do. If the fun is taken out, i.e., getting major bandwidth bills, then you might think it would be better to sit back and enjoy your favorite 6 pack. I believe all will understand necessary changes.

EarlAbsher · 02-23-04, 08:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ron,

If you go the ad route, I'd like to request that you *not* allow Macromedia Flash ads. They are annoying, they eat resources, and they have a tendency to crash workstations (especially those that try to live in a Flash-free world).
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Banners for supporting vendors can be made 'clickable'. No flash of any sort unless you go to their site. It's easy to keep a nice clean look with very little annoyance.

Rick Muck- Mark IV · 02-23-04, 08:59 PM

Ron,

I wish I knew the answer here....I too, like the "no pop-up" world we have here but I understand you can't "tote this note" all by yourself.

I propose that we once again go to the real users and ask for a little help....and if that can't cover it then send it back and go the advertising route. I realize you aren't trying to make a living off this site...it is obviously a labor of love and shouldn't come out of your pocket, but if it can be kept to minimum of commercial investment you will not need to be beholden to the advertisers. And none of them will complain about my warped sense of humor! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Rick [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Ron Earp · 02-23-04, 09:02 PM

If there are ads you can bet they WILL NOT have animation of any type. Simple, and that is all. This site, while I like it, has ads that I would not like to do - too large and too fancy: www.clubcobra.com

Yes, we could easily ask the using users to donate $5 each to cover everything. But what I don't like is that some users, mainly the ones that post very little but love the cars, donate a lot ($25 and more) while users that use the site all the time to post, host pictures, etc. don't ever give it a thought.

So, I figured one way to help aliveate this would be to have manufactuers cover it. It isn't that expensive and they would get a nice benefit too.

EarlAbsher · 02-23-04, 09:12 PM

Many of us, including myself, wouldn't mind pitching in $$$$. However, you'l find that some what join in if there is a membership fee, mandatory or voluntary. This will include folks who could afford it, but are used to 'free' forums.

It is easy to have supporting vendors in a classy, non-obstrusive manner.

And Rick, everyone needs a warped sense of humor [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

David · 02-23-04, 09:28 PM

Ron,

As one who hardly ever posts, does not have a GT40 (probably never will) and have given each time I knew there was a collection, I would suggest that you not turn the forum into an GT40 advertising board. I love to listen to the various stories - like Cal Metal over on Club Cobra. I like to listen to the solutions for people's problems. In short, I believe YOUR forum is great.

You make it into a manufacturer's forum, you will have the same problems Brent has on CC - can't let the Shelby tales become too anti-Shelby, no matter how true they are (Remember Semco on Shelby's Heart Fund? Brent banned Semco, I wonder why?).

Anyway, I would like to see contributions keep the forum going; that way you have ultimate, and final, control - no advertising contracts, yada, yada, yada.

Love what you have done, what you are doing and undoubtedly, what you will do.

Keep up the excellent work.

David Lowell

Ron Earp · 02-23-04, 10:04 PM

Thanks for the info on that post too Lowell - this is precisely why I haven't accepted any adertising in the past despite offers. I might strike a happy medium - no advertising but manufactuers can pay for a forum slot of their own if they like.

That would seem a fairly good solution as we'd still be independent but manufactuers can pay to have a spot to talk to their customers, hear their concerns, help with their builds, etc.

And you are a prime example of folks that give on the forum or make donations but don't necessarily use the board with many posts. Thanks for the support and your ideas - ultimately I would like the forum to be as independent as possible. Otherwise it will become like some other boards, or, worse yet "claim" independence while in truth it is nowhere near close, such as Cobra Country - http://www.cobracountry.com/home2.html - only manufactuers that advertise with them get a link and we can't get a mention at all - I've tried many times.

Rick Muck- Mark IV · 02-23-04, 10:16 PM

Hmmnn....

A tough one. Master Earl..."wax on... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]" I agree, if we had to pay based upon our use of the forum it would bump a lot of people off the site. I would hate to miss a gem from a "lurker" who doesn't see value in contributing, but has a gem to share.

Dave,

Only ONE of the Semkos continues to be AWOL on CC [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

And perhaps you have noticed that I am almost "persona non-grata" on the AC threads! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

But heck, I've been thrown outta better sites!!!

Like I said, I wish I knew what the answer was...just don't want to lose a resource like this. Met some real nice people (some, like Jim J6 in person, some only via electrons) that I really enjoy hearing from.

Ron, if I never remember to say it, you have done well with this site and I thank you for it.

Rick [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

BTW, while I post this the "Fast and Furious" is on TV...has there ever been a WORSE car movie? Even "Days of Thunder" was better than this....gotta go turn on my "NAWS"....

Bill Bayard · 02-23-04, 10:55 PM

Ron,

Please consider the following...

The membership is pretty much in the dark about actual costs, debts, funds, etc. of this forum.

Post the annual budget of the Forum, along with a continously updated total of the contributions for the fiscal year to date, in a window on the opening page. I firmly believe that the membership would keep money rolling in, to meet the budget, without you resorting to a "tin cup" strategy to solicit funds. I think you'd find a budget surplus at the end of the year, without any advertising.
I certainly wouldn't want a budget shortfall to bring
this forum to an end! I'm sure that everyone else feels the
same way.

Please let us know what WE can do to help, so that the
Forum doesn't become another CC!

Bill

VICTOR A · 02-24-04, 12:47 AM

Ron, as you know from my previous post this Forum had a lot to do with me getting my 40. I look at this site every day and enjoy it totally. I have donated every time the call went out and I am willing to do so again. There is more good info than in lot of the magazines I have read and the replies to questions come quick. Do what you have to do to keep the Forum as good as it is.

Vic

CAV 40

Canuk40 · 02-24-04, 12:47 AM

Hi Ron,

Gotta agree with Bill, members will surely chip in. As for the advertising aspect, I think the forum will appear more neutral without banners ads, prority listings, pop ups etc.

I also agree the manufacturers should pony up more than members to help out as we do get our own sections. Please email Bob Lacey and myself about what you have in mind.

This is a great forum, my hat's off to you guys, keep up the good work

Chuck · 02-24-04, 03:41 AM

First off, I wouldn't have bought my ERA without this forum. The access to other owners of ERA's and other GT40 replica makes was critical to my comfort in writing a big check for a replica. After my purchase, the next $'s out the door were to Ron's forum fund.

I am a member of a Porsche based forum through it's three evolutions in the last 8+ years (now it's Rennlist). It's nominal cost but has tons of paying members since the potential audience is larger, but of course the traffic is through the roof. Rennlist gives members a few small perks which few take advantage of and requires membership to post. No pictures are allowed in posts but links to offsite photo sites are. Minimal banners.

I'm also member of a flailing jdm board that has a decent concept. You can view forums free and post, including pics, but have to be a due paying member to view pictures in posts (otherwise you get words with a "tag" where the picture would be). You essentially pay for using the bandwidth. The forum isn't flailing due to the costs or the dues requirement (I believe), it just has the natural issues with member commitment that the jdm hobby seems to attract. My wife tells me to point out that jdm is the acronym for "Japanese Domestic Market" and usually is focused on importing or modifying some of the unique Japanese sports cars.

Ferrari chat has low irritation banner advertising.

Just throwing out more ideas of what's out there.

Chuck
ERA GT 2064

Rick Chattell · 02-24-04, 05:58 AM

Ron,

I would have no objection in principle to paying something towards this forum. It is well managed and is a huge resource for both customer and manufacturer.

One option that you may wish to consider is to charge a small flat fee (or a small precentage) to people (either manufacturers or customers) who are advertising their cars for sale on the forum.

It must cover its costs surely! It is no good if you or anyone else ends up out of pocket providing a service for the masses!

Rick

Brett James-McCall · 02-24-04, 06:30 AM

Ron,
That reminds me, it is nearly that time of year again. I find thisforum more than useful and one day I will get my car finished... actually that should read started. Please could you post/send you Paypal address again so I can send my yearly contribution to you [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Brett