GT40s.com Forum - Potential Changes

[Jim Rosenthal]

Ron, I think you are justified in asking for input about how to support the costs of the Forum. My .02, FWIW:
There are several things to gain from hanging out on the forum: enjoyment, making friends, knowledge, and possibly selling something. To keep things simple, I suggest you have two kinds of memberships: corporate, which would be any company with GT40s or products related to them, and individual. The reason for the difference is that the corporate members have the potential to make money from their presence on the Forum, where the individual members have less chance. I will admit this gets a little fuzzy when you look at folks who don't sell or build complete cars, but offer valuable and unique services- for example RBT, or Wealden Engineering, to name only two of many. Maybe anyone should be able to join as an individual, but folks wanting to do business or make sales etc should join as corporate members.
Personally, I would like to see the individual membership be voluntary. I guess it comes down to an issue of will there be enough money from a combination of corporate memberships and voluntary individual memberships to keep the Forum afloat. I suspect there would be. The cost to me of theoretically giving a free ride to anyone is more than offset by the moral value I place on free speech, even if it ain't exactly free and even if it costs me a few dollars. It's worth it to me, even if you count the PYMWYMI factor. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Not to mention the TANSTAAFL factor as well. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Brian Kissel]

Hello Ron !!
Robs idea of different levels are used on other sites like this one: info .
The supporting members are listed at the top of the page, and also the level of support. Although I like the GT40, I will probably never own one. I am involved with the Lola T70, and this is the next best thing to it. I am ready to contribute any time it is needed.
THANKS for a GREAT site, and all your hard work you put into it.
Regards Brian

 

[Ron Earp]

Hey Folks,

thanks for all the support and helpful ideas, I really mean that. This is a great group and don't worry, we're not going anywhere and I hope my post didn't alarm you. Please don't get the wrong idea, we're covered for money at the moment. In fact, if you'd like to see the previous contrabution thread it is here: Click Here

We got about $955 from that, of which about $875 was usable. Some folks sent checks to Hershal which couldn't be cashed by me, don't worry, I destroyed them.

Some have asked about costs to run and that is fairly simple. Our server space, bandwidth, connection, and service plus software spread over 1 year puts us right at $123.00 a month. So, while we don't cover the entire thing with donations we cover most of it and that keeps me out of pocket at an acceptable level.

Yes, we could go for a cheaper server and save some money but my experiences have been that this one is solid, it might cost more, but it supports a lot of bandwidth, is fast, and doesn't choke down. Remember, 2.5 years ago this thing used to be hosted on the $25.99 unlimited blah, blah, blah special and it crashed often due to useage. And, there is significant time and effort in getting the software to run on a new server that I'd rather not repeat. Suffice to say we stay where we are unless one of you knows a good server for less money and will do the move.

I will check into a few of the suggestions mentioned;

1. Levels of membership or service for donating parties. Keep in mind every feature, like the stuff we added at Christmas, is more software and costs money. I hope this might just be a shareware patch though cause this forum software is widely supported through other forums that I frequent.

2. Ads - overwhelming everyone says no ads. I agree.

3. Forums for manufactuers - these will be available for money on a yearly basis. They will include the forum, moderation control, and a link to your website at the point of entry, just like we have now. If interested contact me offline. Approximate cost will be around 1/4 our yearly cost per year to help out and reduce the contributions required by members to run at zero out of pocket. This has nothing to do with club sites, those are covered already.

4. Possible membership "features", that is, you can do this and that if you are a contributing member but if you aren't you can't do this and that. I'm not sure I like that beacuse mostof you know my affinity for personal freedoms and rights, especially the first and second of the US Constitution. Plus, it could generate too much cash - if everyone gave $10 we'd have too much!! But, we could easily channel that to reserves and software upgrades. There are some things now I'd like to add but they cost cash as usual plus some are complicated and I'd have to outsource their installation.

5. GT40s.com, should we incoporate? Some indivduals have emailed me and said they don't like the idea of donations to an indivdual. Can't blame them, I suppose I could run away with all $875 and leve you folks holding the bag. Obviously I wouldn't and too many of you know where I live. Anyhow, I'll check into this and what it would cost to be a LLC or similar.

So, there are my thoughts at the moment. I think the ad idea will not happen because we all like to be netural and "free". I've only ever banned one fellow, that racer guy from the UK, and I don't want to have to worry about banning people if they say something bad about xyz, an advertiser.

More once Lynn and I get back from checking out his GT40,
R

 

[Howard Jones]

Ron I have read all the above with great interest. I first want to say that this forum has helped me complete, well almost, my GTD. I can't tell you how much help it has been.

In order of importance:

Pictures, This is the most important feature on this forum for those of us who are building cars. Where else can you go to see the inside of a renault gearbox when you are trying to make it work. Or how about GTD rear suspension pickup point modifications. Pictures are worth a 1000 words!

Builders forum; This is a wonderful addition and has been very helpful.

Manufactures forum; I really love to see the way other engineers have addressed similar problems.

General GT40 forum; This is a kind of whats new today in my hobbie and I always look forward to whats going on on the forum.

Cost; Keep it as free from adds as you see fit. I think that if the manufactures can lend a hand then good but I would rather continue to send you a check as necessary than have to deal with popups and all that crap.

I leave it to you, you have done a great job and I will count on you to continue to do so. If you need my help, you know where to find me.

Thanks again, Howard Jones

 

[Kevin M]

Ron,

I may have missed something here, but nowhere can I find info on where to send a donation. What is your address and how do you want the checks made out? (Ron’s Party Fund?) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif. If you don’t want to put your home address on the forum, how about getting a P.O. Box and posting that?

Kevin

 

[ QUOTE ]
5. GT40s.com, should we incoporate? Some indivduals have emailed me and said they don't like the idea of donations to an indivdual. Can't blame them, I suppose I could run away with all $875 and leve you folks holding the bag. Obviously I wouldn't and too many of you know where I live. Anyhow, I'll check into this and what it would cost to be a LLC or similar.



[/ QUOTE ]

This cracks me up. Maybe I need to go get a flame suit. We're not talking about making individuals donations in the hundreds or thousands. Even if that was the case, it wouldn't be a tax write off.

I can't imagine someone not willing to donate if you are an individual but would donate if you were incorportated. I'd bet $10 that individuals who actually won't donate because of the incorporation status, probably wouldn't donate anyway.

As far as incorporating, I've done that with my business. It ain't cheap. We're talking in the thousands. Then, you have the head ache of having to file out income taxes each year on the corporation. If you don't, you get a Dear John letter from the IRS. Plus your State will want their share, not to mention the annual costs of a good CPA.

Bottom line, you could spends thousands of dollars to incorporate, plus hundreds of dollars a year to a CPA, etc, just to get a very limited amount of extra funds, just so someone feels warm and fuzzy??

Heck, I'm new here. I don't own at GT40. I hope to buy a new one. That's why I'm here. Even so, if you could use some extra dollars, I'd be happy to contribute.

 

[Mike Christian]

look at all the folks that donated to Enron which is a coporation and where did that get them? i'll donate ot an individual as long as it is the individual related to this site and not some psychic Cleo from an island in the caribbean.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Ron, I agree with Master Earl, individuals who would'nt donate to you would be unlikely to donate to a Corporate entity.As far as this forum goes it has been a wealth of information and enjoyment for me, as I am sure it is for all GT40 fans/builders/owners. I am happy to continue to donate to keep it going. You should not be out of pocket even at "an acceptable level".I reckon you could add a reasonable fee for your time and only the most unreasonable of tight asses would object.
Keep up the good work.

 

[Mark Worthington]

If we funded the forum through manufacturers' banner ads then some manufacturers would contribute while others wouldn't; this would mean that some would unfairly subsidize others. We'd also have to wear kid gloves when posting about the pros and cons of different cars, and anything that detracts from candid opinions is not a good thing IMO.

Now while I don't like the idea of manufacturer's banner ads supporting this forum, I wouldn't mind banner ads from vendors such as Summit, Jegs, Demon Tweaks, insurers, vehicle transporters, etc. As long as they are purveyors of parts or services and not kits I don't see a problem. I would also imagine that the GT40s.com member demographics (mean income, etc.) are VERY attractive to advertisers.

Of course soliciting advertising money and keeping tabs on the financials would probably be more effort than it's worth, so I'd be happy if we kept the donation system going. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Howard Jones]

Ron, All this seams like it is getting to be too much work. When you need a few more bucks just let us know. We're only talking about donations of $5-$20 or so. Jess.........eeeeeeeees lets keep it simple!

Let me know when you need another 20 bucks.

 

[Ron Earp]

Thanks for all the replies and support folks. One thing is clear: we won’t have advertising in the short term. I don’t like sites I visit with pop-ups and neither do any of you, so that is essentially out. Also, as Mark pointed out it’d be a damn hassle dealing with securing the advertising.

Also becoming commercial is out for the moment since it costs more money, will consume more money in the future, and just doesn’t seem worth it. Earl is definitely correct about people who give – being commercial or not won’t change anything – we’re talking $10-$20 here, the amount of money you spend on a couple of beers after work (depending on where you live of course, it might just be one beer!!).

I really don’t want to have features turned on or off depending on if someone wants to donate or not either. So, that is probably out too as an incentive for membership/donation.

So, I think that leaves forums for manufacturers and donations, which seem perfectly livable. I’ll prepare and send an email to the principals at the companies to see if they’re interested in supporting a forum for their car. Even at a fairly low cost, for the service, of around $300 per year the money would seriously help offset costs if a few were involved. And, I think donations will certainly cover the rest provided everything works correctly.

Any other suggestions please post them here, this has been very helpful.

Thanks,
Ron

 

Ron,

I agree with Howard, Brian , Rob, Bill and most of the others, who have commented on this thread, that this forum was/is/will be very important to us GT40 gearheads. I shudder to think of where I might be in the build process were it not for forum members like Lynn, Howard, Chris, et al who always came to my aid. So, anytime you need a few bucks to keep it going just let me know. Hell, everybody knows how rich we retired school teachers are.

Ben

 

[David]

One Other Point

Ron,

One other point; maybe get somebody like Computerworks(?) over on CC to help take some of the load off you? There must be somebody here that is extremely computer savy and can help?

Just a thought.

David

 

Ron let me know I'm on board /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Hey Ron, no ads please! I'd gladly pay more - this site is a constant source of education. I have gotten far more out of this site than I have contributed to financially.

 

[Yuji]

Totaly agree to the posts earlier. This is significaant source for me to get information I need to keep running (or just maintain?) my GTD40, which is extremely difficult in our region. I'm willing to send necessary $ (via PayPal) as membership fee to keep this site up and running. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Murray Cowley]

Count me in if any funds are required. I cannot keep away from this site, it has helped and answered me with so much information. We/I could not do without. It's a lot of hard work done very well.
Murray

 

[Ron Earp]

Hi Folks,

Thanks for all the support and help! I've sent out letters to the different GT40 manufacturers to offer them a forum spot if they wish to have one.

In the meantime we'll have no advertising and remain free - just as people wanted.

When the time for donations comes up again, sometime in April-May probably, I'll setup a special GT40s.com email address to accept PayPal and we'll do it that way. This go around donating parties will have a "Forum Supporter" or something similar added to their user name. There is some software that automatically handles this stuff and it runs about $75.00, which we can afford.

Thanks again and take care,
Ron

 

Regarding changes to the forum, that's a great new logo Ron, and thanks for the use of your image Jeff!

Rob

 

[John Place]

Hi Ron;

I also agree and would like to send a donation or annual fee.
Pls advise a Box number. Sorry, but you started something that we not only like but need to have continuity so we GT40 guys can learn and communicate.

I just got my CAV GT40 on the road, ZF and 392 Ford, blue with white stripe and nose flare. It is great, makes my day.

John Place