LS/Ricardo flywheel and clutch install?

Alex · 28th July 2012, 12:34 PM

Don't laugh, I've never done any clutch work before so I'm terrified of messing this up, especially since this isn't like install a corvette clutch onto a corvette flywheel, heh.

1 - Does the flywheel install just like an LS flywheel? Meaning use the appropriate LS flywheel bolts (e.g., LS3 flywheel bolts) and torque to normal specs? Is there anything to be aware of?

2 - Does the clutch install similar to the ford-GT? i.e.,
http://www.stillen.com/product_files/FGT402000~inst.pdf
i.e., get special ford GT clutch bolts (9 of them) and bolt it in using 19ft-lbs+blue loctite? Is there anything to be aware of?

3 - What is the general order of steps? E.g., install adapter plate to engine, press bronze bushing into flywheel, install flywheel, etc....?

4- Is bleeding the clutch just like bleeding the brakes - i.e., have somebody push down while you crack the bleeder screw on the Ricardo until no air comes out? I assume you can use DOT 3 brake fluid for clutch fluid as well? (I do in my z06 anyways)

bob d · 28th July 2012, 02:55 PM

Alex, if you are running the Ricardo gearbox, then you probably got the flywheel from Fran. I would suggest to go get the bearing sold by Ford for the Ford GT flywheel, carry the flywheel and have it machined to accommodate the bearing from the gearbox side. you will need the Ford GT clutch bolts with washers, you will also need the alignment tool from Ford. This is a pain in the but to get the part number because it is only sold to Ford Service Technicians, I had to go and get the part number from a mechanic at Ford, the parts guy would not give it to me, the tool is plastic and not very expensive. Mount the flywheel and torque per ford specs. Mount the clutch and align the discs with the pilot tool, you want it to be able to slide in and out easily, with the tool in place tighten the clutch bolts and torque per Ford specs. Now you are ready to set in the gearbox. align the gear box to go straight in rotating the axle to move the pilot shaft around to align the splines for the gearbox to the clutch discs. Make sure the gearbox is flush before tightening the bolts to hold the gearbox in place. Connect the hydraulic hose for the clutch. with someone in the car depress the clutch while bleeding the system until you have good pedal and it has play at the top so the clutch is not slightly disengaged while running.
I use DOT 3 fluid on the clutch system since there is not that much heat there. I would use the blue loctite on all the bolts I think I will have to get with my mechanic to confirm this.
I would replace the bushing that comes on the flywheel with the bearing because it creates less drag on the gearbox when shifting and sitting at a light or starting off and trying to get it into gear, I have had both the bushing and the bearing, it works much better.

Wayne · 28th July 2012, 02:57 PM

Use CTF-50048 alignment tool, I got it from Summitt. I can't upload bleeding instructions, I'll email them.

bob d · 28th July 2012, 03:02 PM

Also I think you had to machine the flywheel for the bearing 7/8" in from the gearbox side. This is opposite the side the bushing is installed from. A lip will be in the flywheel to hold the bearing from going all the way through. Check the depth to confirm it is 7/8". You can do that by measuring the pilot shaft where it goes into the bearing. We did this by measuring the depth of the flywheel and bushing, then the depth of the shaft, and calculated the proper placement for the bearing to the shaft. I hope this makes sense, if not I will get with my mechanic and confirm the depth for the machining.

Alex · 28th July 2012, 03:42 PM

Already have the ford GT clutch bolts and alignment tool.

Flywheel is from Fran - I know you mentioned having to machine a lip in, but is that necessary? You're the only person (aside from Roberto, but i think he wanted to use a different bushing) I know who had to have it machined?

Will Campbell · 28th July 2012, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFNFAST

Already have the ford GT clutch bolts and alignment tool.

Flywheel is from Fran - I know you mentioned having to machine a lip in, but is that necessary? You're the only person (aside from Roberto, but i think he wanted to use a different bushing) I know who had to have it machined?

You can use the provided bushing, and just press it in. But the thinking with the bearing is that it is a better solution, and more tolerant of slight input shaft misalignment.

I'm using the bearing to be safe. Plus, it's what the original FGT uses.

bob d · 29th July 2012, 09:56 AM

The lip I am referring to is done when you machine the flywheel. You come in from the opposite side from where the bushing is pressed in. When the hole is machined the hole does not go completely through, there is a small part about 1/16' or so left. This gives a lip for the bearing to stop against when it is pressed in. The pilot shaft holds it in from coming out in case it got loose. I agree with Will, it is the original equipment from Ford and it is more forgiving and your gearbox shifts much smoother.

Dave Lindemann · 29th July 2012, 12:43 PM

Guys - This is all great information for those of us with Ricardo's - thank you very much for posting it!

Dave L

Alex · 29th July 2012, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlindemann

Guys - This is all great information for those of us with Ricardo's - thank you very much for posting it!

Dave L

Not for poor old Alex - now he's confused if he should buy a bearing, machine a flywheel, use as is, etc... I tend to make the wrong choice all the time so it doubly sucks for me ... not all of us have easy access to competent machinists or have a mill in our garage

Anybody using the supplied bronze bushing and flywheel as is and not having problems shifting their transaxle or having it blow up?

Mike · 29th July 2012, 01:37 PM

Why don't you have Fran do it and supply the correct pilot bearing at the same time - if you don't trust anyone up in the great white north.

Grant S · 29th July 2012, 02:17 PM

Kennedy engineering can do this for you as well, Doe's any one have a picture with the bearing installed? It would be worth a 1000 words. I never received the bushing with my flywheel and am still waiting for my Ricardo from Fran. I would like to do the bearing upgrade as well, stock bearing or Roberto's upgrade but a picture would be very helpful.

Thanks,
Grant

Dave Lindemann · 29th July 2012, 02:32 PM

A part number for the bearing would also be great.

Dave L

Wayne · 29th July 2012, 03:18 PM

I talked to Fran about this. The bronze bushing has been in his Mule since day one (and probably still is) with out issue even at 194mph.

FWIW: If everything is aligned properly and grease in bushing and pilot shaft, the bronze bushing should be fine. Because my gearbox was bolted up and in the car I left it alone. But, if it was all apart I probably would opt for the bearing.

bob d · 30th July 2012, 10:24 AM

I know I have thrown a kink into things, I talked to Ford about the problem when I was dealing with it, they told me the bushing was the way they use to do it , but converted over to the bearing and is now what they offer. The part number is 7600 and cost $18.00 . I have brought this up because I like to help prevent issues I have gone through for my fellow SL-C guys. The machining was $60 for the flywheel. Fran has also told me his bushing has been fine , we have gone through 2 before we replaced it with a bearing, no problems since, I guess it is just some issues are prone to certain cars and some are not.

Dave Lindemann · 30th July 2012, 07:59 PM

Bob -

Thanks for the part number - I'll be using the bearing.

Dave L

Alex · 31st July 2012, 06:57 PM

For those of you who had troubles with the clutch, did you try adjusting your clutch stop?

I was thinking about this having talked to several people, and when I built my cobra the first few hundred miles I was always adjusting the clutch stop as the clutch wore in. If it got lazy and didn't adjust it, I wouldn't be able to get it into gear unless I got damn lucky. Since these systems arn't self adjusting wouldn't you have to bleed the clutch every few hundred miles (at least initially) and reposition your stop until it's worn in?

Grant S · 31st July 2012, 07:32 PM

Ok I ordered the Ford bearing M 7600 can someone confirm the machining info?
is it .875 in from the clutch surface?
Thanks,
Grant

Al Wohlstrom · 31st July 2012, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFNFAST

Don't laugh, I've never done any clutch work before so I'm terrified of messing this up, especially since this isn't like install a corvette clutch onto a corvette flywheel, heh.

1 - Does the flywheel install just like an LS flywheel? Meaning use the appropriate LS flywheel bolts (e.g., LS3 flywheel bolts) and torque to normal specs? Is there anything to be aware of?

2 - Does the clutch install similar to the ford-GT? i.e.,
http://www.stillen.com/product_files/FGT402000~inst.pdf
i.e., get special ford GT clutch bolts (9 of them) and bolt it in using 19ft-lbs+blue loctite? Is there anything to be aware of?

3 - What is the general order of steps? E.g., install adapter plate to engine, press bronze bushing into flywheel, install flywheel, etc....?

4- Is bleeding the clutch just like bleeding the brakes - i.e., have somebody push down while you crack the bleeder screw on the Ricardo until no air comes out? I assume you can use DOT 3 brake fluid for clutch fluid as well? (I do in my z06 anyways)

Press in the bearing then install the flywheel.
Installing the bearing will save you future grief, when I pulled my ricardo due to problems with reverse I had a lot of bronze filings on the shaft after only 30 minutes of run time. I used ARP bolts for the clutch and their torque spec was 22 ft lbs with ARP lubricant. 19-20 ft lbs should be fine with blue loctite and stock bolts. I put a little gray anti seize on the end of the pilot shaft and spline and the transaxle slipped right in.

Al Wohlstrom · 31st July 2012, 11:30 PM

Here's the clutch bleed I got from Wayne.

Hydraulic System Bleeding and Pedal Stop Set-up
This clutch must be used with a positive stop on the clutch pedal to prevent over-stroking. Below is an easy means of setting the stop once the drivetrain is in place.
1. To bleed the system remove the pedal stop, depress the pedal 1/2", open the bleed screw, stroke the pedal it's full travel, close the bleed screw, allow the pedal to return, and repeat until all air has been removed from the system.
2. Raise drive wheels and support the car on jack stands.
3.With the engine off and the car in gear, slowly depress the clutch pedal until the tires just barely break free.
4. Give the pedal and additional .25" of travel (measured at the foot pad) and lock the pedal stop in place. This will allow the clutch to cleanly release itself without damage.

If you don't have a clutch stop, I can send you pictures of what I did on mine.

Alex · 9th August 2012, 08:37 PM

Okay, everything's here. I've NEVER done any clutch/flywheel/etc... work before so I have no clue what I'm doing. I have a rough idea of the steps, but I need HELP

Perhaps we can do a walkthrough - i.e., help Alex install it all together - that will be helpful to other automative-challenged people (c'mon, I can't be the only person who doesn't know how to weld or have a CNC shop in their garage!)

1) Crate engine out of the box.

I understand I need to remove the automatic flex plate. WTF is that?

I circled 3 series of bolts. There's the red circles (around the snout) , the green circles (on the edge of the thingie) and the blue circles, which are a series of bolts holding something to the back of the engine (with additional bolts behind the spinnie-thingie)

What do I want to remove?

2) Once we're stripped down, I assume I want to bolt the transaxle adapter to the holes that it lines up with on the back?

I assume these are the green holes. Does anybody know what thread pitch this is and the torque spec for it? (I imagine use anti-seize into aluminum heads)

Also, since the transaxle gets bolted to it, I assume I need to remember to leave the transaxle bolts in their respective holes in the adapter plate (otherwise I'll never be able to install them because the engine will be in the way and prevent me from inserting them)