Audi 016 Problems - Help Needed

[jdinner]

Let me start from the beginning.
We have a hi-performance 3800SC connected to the 016. The car is used as a rental and every idiot out there tries to do a burnout with it.
Our first series of problems was the gear case being broken at the rear of the pinion shaft. The bearing was pushing through the cast iron case.
I designed and installed a plate to give it Audi Upgrade strength and this problem is cured.
Step by Step here - http://stweb.peelschools.org/sssweb/TTI-WEB/cars/pictures/AudiTransaxleUpgradeStepbyStep/index.html
Then our next series of problems were the CV shafts breaking. We have Audi shafts milled to mate to GM 4X4 axles. The GM 4X4 shafts were breaking and the Audi shafts were twisting.
I made my own axles using DANA 1350 axle components (light truck) and this cured that problem. I found that balance is not a problem if you get it close, these axles spin at a slower rate than normal driveshafts.
NOW THE CURRENT PROBLEM. We have just broken our third spider side gear. I can change the diff carrier without removing it from the car so it is easier than changing the transaxle.
I am afraid of welding these solid because I don't think the car will steer after I do it. I will be posting pictures of the broken gears to my site next week.
Does anyone have experience in this department?

Jim Dinner
www.kwikercars.com

 

[Jim S.]

Jim,

Great ingenuity on the pinion bearing support plate! I would suggest you find longer dowel sleeves and re-install them. Without these sleeves your counting on the main shaft and bearing to re-align the rear case. The problem with this is that there is some play to the shaft and when you are torqueing the cover down it could slide on the RTV sealer then the cover is side loading that rear bearing and the shaft itself and "may" cause an early failure.

Have you noticed any problems with the ring gear side case? Cracking? I would assume this will be next since you've strengthened the pinion from moving back. The ring gear will be trying to push out the side now. Hopefully the side case is strong enough and won't need to be beefed up.

On the spider gears I wouldn't suggest it do to the steering issues you stated.

I love this type of ingenuity! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif

Cheers,

 

[jdinner]

Hey Jim S. I agree the dowels should longer and used, however I made the plate and installed it as a 'test' to see if it would work, that was 10,000 miles ago. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
I have not experienced any cracking or carrier bearing wear since the fix.

I was thinking about this problem most of the day and I think I have a strange solution. I am going to try to install a one-way hydraulic pressure restrictor in the clutch line. This will let the clutch work normally when pushing it to the floor. When you remove your foot from the pedal the restrictor will let the clutch engage slowly...say 2 or 3 seconds. This type of valve is adjustable so I can play with it. I think this will stop the moronic drivers from beating this thing to death. My only concern is smoking the clutch.

Any ideas or thoughts on this are VERY welcome.

Jim
www.kwikercars.com

 

[Jim S.]

Jim,

sounds like a plan. Hope it works well. It's hard to keep people from beating on fun cars, especially when they don't own them. That old "drive it like you stole it" mentality.

The tricky part will be getting it to engage quick enough not to smoke the clutch, but slow enough to ease the abuse on the trans.

Nice talking with you, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Ian Anderson]

Different thinking

How about some rubber "donuts" instead of CV joints to absorb some of that initial hit?

Yes they may not last but got to be cheaper than gearboxes and rebuilds

Ian

 

[jdinner]

Ian, I thought of that already. I used to work on fork lift trucks back during my apprenticeship and Yale used a rubber drive shaft but the diameter is way too big.
My Lincoln Mark VIII has an aluminum driveshaft inner tube and outer tube held together by rubber. This would work but the rubber, I think, will disintegrate fairly quickly.

Jim

 

[andys]

[ QUOTE ]
Different thinking

How about some rubber "donuts" instead of CV joints to absorb some of that initial hit?

Yes they may not last but got to be cheaper than gearboxes and rebuilds

Ian

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe nearly all BMW sedans use a rubber donut on their driveshafts. Their sizes look reasonable with regard to a possible fit for such an application.

Andys

 

Whats the differences between the Audi 012 and the 016 transaxles? Any info regarding the 012 would be greatly appreciated.

 

[jdinner]

Not sure what the 012 is but here is some literature about the Audi vs Porsche
http://lambolounge.com/Chassis/Transmission/Audi-915/index.asp
Thanks for the ideas. Pictures are of the Audi damage and the new hydraulic valve for the clutch line.

http://stweb.peelschools.org/sssweb/TTI-WEB/cars/pictures/mar606%20009.jpg
http://stweb.peelschools.org/sssweb/TTI-WEB/cars/pictures/mar606%20015.jpg

 

[Chris P.]

The 012 was used in Audi's in the early 90's, but I can't remember the models, and the Passat. I'll look it up tonight - some time back I had found an "official" rebuild pdf for the 012 and I remember it mentioning the Passat as well as an Audi (I think). I almost bought one over ebay because it was listed for $15 (noone bought it either) - it was taken out because it had trouble shifting into 1st and 3rd. Sounded like a possible simple fix, but no one seemed to be using it in applications like ours, so I decided to go with what was tried and true. I do remember the highest HP rating it was used with was something like 198 HP. Again, I'll check these tonight when I get home and post if someone else hasn't already.

 

[jdinner]

I installed the valve in the clutch line today and tested it. I adjusted the valve so under normal driving you do not notice any difference. When you drop the clutch it acts like you are letting the clutch out normally. I hope this works.

Jim

 

[Mark Worthington]

Audi 016 failure modes

Hi Jim,

I just wanted to say that your web site and your few posts here on this forum have brought more good Audi 016 tech than I've seen anywhere else on the net. From the information you provided, it seems that the weak points of the Audi 016 are, in order:

1) Failure of the cast iron gear case due to pinion bearing loads. I'm pretty sure this was the cause of the demise of Hershal's first 016 when he couldn't restrain himself from a little drag racing.

2) Half shafts (really not an 016 failure per se).

3) Failure of the spider gears. I assume a good LSD, like the Quaife unit, might be a lot stronger than the Audi parts.

Can you tell us how much HP/torque your GM crate engine makes to the rear wheels? Also, how much the car weighs and what size rear tires you were using?

Thanks for the information you've provided.

 

[jdinner]

Re: Audi 016 failure modes

Hi Mark, we are running a 3.8liter supercharged GM V-6 with a modified wire harness and computer (no emissions), with a 3 inch supercharger pully, stainless mandrel bent exhaust system and roller rockers. Approx Hp is 325.
The car comes in at 3200lbs. The tires on the back are 345/35ZR18, alot of rubber to try to spin. In the effort to lose traction (save the transaxle) I run the rear tires at 55PSI. This makes for tons of fun drifting through corners.

Jim

 

[Jim Cowden]

Re: Audi 016 failure modes

Fes up Jim its you who is doing the burn outs.
Its us you are talking to you cant spin doctor us the 55psi rear tye pressure has given you away my freind. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dead_horse.gif

 

[jdinner]

Re: Audi 016 failure modes

That's funny Jim C. but no it is not me, in fact I hardly get to drive it since it is rented out most of the time. I built the car and now I am doing the repairs to it. I aired the tires to 55 psi as a measure to try to prevent damage, it helps but so far the clutch line valve seems to be doing the job. It has been out on 8 different rentals in the past 2 weeks and no problems. I am crossing my fingers constantly.
I do give it good run when I get the chance but I have never broken anything. It comes from driving loaded tractor trailer trucks, if you pop the clutch on one of those it hurts.

Is that a rented mule in your message?

Cheers,
Jim