1040 - And part of the GT40 Sbarro Story

Re: 1040

Mr "GR",

I suggest you to take the time to read carefully JimmyMac build thread. Even if his mono is a replica, I think it is 98% true to original. The 2% remaining are just manufacturing "shortcuts" to avoid very expensive stamping dies.

That said, you will be able to see that the 2 reinforcements gussets that hold the front of the lower wishbones are not overlaping with the flanged holes.

I think you have connections with the current french owner of the sbarro car, and I can understand that thinking that the car you love and maybe care of is a "fake" must be pretty hard. But....


i'm not an expert, but I am confident enough to affirm that the FAV bleuprints are drawn this way.

Sbarro has messed a couple of times (at least) and it is normal that people are getiing suspicious about him. "Il n'y a pas de fumée sans feu" ("no smoke without fire" for the non froggies literates)

You, or your friend has invested a lot of money in a nice car, but probably not a "real" one.

Olivier.
 
Re: 1040

I just missed meeting Ronnie Spain when he was roaming around in Canada last week; he has since continued on to somewhere in the USA. He was visiting a friend of mine who owns both a genuine GT40 and a Safir. My friend told me that he's gathering data for the next version of his book, which promises to reveal a lot of truths that some might not want revealed.

GT40s, both real and fake, are always owned by rich, powerful people (with a very few exceptions), and those type of people typically don't like it when their investment is publicly exposed as being a fraud. So it's likely that Ronnie is going to find himself crossed off at least a few Christmas card lists! :laugh:

Personally, if I owned the Sbarro car, I'd be proud to call it what it is--a beautifully crafted replica in the spirit of the Gelscoe cars. I'd be ashamed to pretend that it was the real P/1040, which everybody knows is the one that was restored in the USA and nearing completion (or recently completed). It astounds me that the former and current owners continue with this laughable charade, in the face of such overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

My buddy is in the process of getting FIA paperwork for his GT40. When he contacted the FIA, they told him flat-out that whenever they get a call for such things relating to GT40s, the first and only thing they do is contact Ronnie Spain for a yay or nay. The version I have of Spain's book tracks the history of the USA P/1040 and makes no mention of the one in Europe. It will be interesting to see what the new book (which hopefully will be published one of these days???) has to say about both cars....
 
Re: 1040

Personally, if I owned the Sbarro car, I'd be proud to call it what it is--a beautifully crafted replica in the spirit of the Gelscoe cars. I'd be ashamed to pretend that it was the real P/1040


And if you had paid the price of the real one for a well crafted replica, what would you think?

By the way, the link posted before, and which points to the "french" 40, you can read that the car has a FIA historical passeport...

WHen it comes to expertise, and experts, be carefull. I don't know Mr Spain, and in any case I would allow myself to have any doubts about his knowledge, nor honesty, but, heard differents stories about cars fully aknowleged as "real" by famous brand experts, and the car in question has been withdrawn from an auction, because the owner of the same chassis number, but different car had emitted protestations...
 

Jim Rosenthal

Supporter
Re: 1040

Francis, nice photos, but that is not the original and real 1040. The original and real 1040 is the one that is in the USA and was just restored by Robert Ash. That car's chassis and pieces have been seen not once but several times by Ronnie Spain- who is absolutely acknowledged as the world's final authority on the authenticity of these cars- and there isn't any question that the Silawsky/Davis car restored by Robert Ash IS the real and original 1040.

And if you don't know Mr. Spain, if you're interested in GT40s, you'll more than likely end up reading his book at some point. Ronnie Spain was compiling race history and tracking the sales of these cars long before any of the rest of us were interested in them. He's devoted his adult life to them. There isn't anyone better versed in these cars and his opinion is as good as it gets. Which is why people fly him all over the world to look at them and tell them whether they are authentic.
 
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Re: 1040

....And if you don't know Mr. Spain, if you're interested in GT40s, you'll more than likely end up reading his book at some point. .....

Funny you mention that, I just got my copy in the mail last night....at 2:00AM I figured I'd better put it down as I needed to leave for work at 7:00:laugh:

Fascinating reading:thumbsup:

Francis
 

Charlie Farley

Supporter
Re: 1040

Quote : " When it comes to expertise, and experts, be careful. I don't know Mr Spain, "


Olivier, that says it completely for me, educate yourself first, before you express an opinion. Have you met or even read any of Ronnie's books ?
By the way Sbarro has made some excellent , technically, creations other than ripping off originals.
 

Charlie Farley

Supporter
Re: 1040

Olivier,

I almost forgot.
There is infact another " 1040 " out there, that has incorporated into the chassis, a sizeable chunk of the fire damaged ORIGINAL FAV chassis.
Chew on that one sunbeam.
Would seem to devalue the one you adore, even more.
 
Re: 1040

Charlie Farley,
My english isn't perfect, but, please, take the time to read ALL I wrote, and make the effort to understand me please.

By the way, the link posted before, and which points to the "french" 40, you can read that the car has a FIA historical passeport...

WHen it comes to expertise, and experts, be carefull. I don't know Mr Spain, and in any case I would allow myself to have any doubts about his knowledge, nor honesty, but, heard differents stories about cars fully aknowleged as "real" by famous brand experts, and the car in question has been withdrawn from an auction, because the owner of the same chassis number, but different car had emitted protestations...

If you quote only a few words from me, this changes the sense of my post.

I repeat, I don't know personally Mr Spain, and have no reason to have any doubt about his epxertise in the range of 40's.

If you had read all my posts, the french car claims to have a HTP from the FIA, which means that the car has been examined by FIA "experts".

If I have some doubts about experts, this is probably not about Mr Spain!

And, one more time, you are wrong, this is not the one that I "adore". I think my previous posts were clear enough about what I think of the french car: it's a Sbarro fake.

So next time, please, avoid the "educate yourself" before reading ALL I wrote...

PS, if you need explanations about the story i related in my post, please, pm me, I will provide you some details.
 
Re: 1040

And if you had paid the price of the real one for a well crafted replica, what would you think?

>>>I would think that I was a fool. :huh:

If somebody pays full price for a Van Gogh painting, and then later learns that the paint only dried five years ago, and was applied to a blank canvas by an art school student in Hamburg instead of Van Gogh, how is he supposed to feel?

Exactly the same way. At the end of the day, he has a very nice painting to look at. But it's not what it was purported to be.

Of course, anybody who is spending that kind of money should be doing proper due diligence beforehand. Whether with priceless artwork or GT40s, if you just leap in without taking the time to verify the authenticity of what you're buying, it's difficult to feel too sorry for you when you later discover you've been burned...but if you then attempt to burn somebody else to get out from under your mistake, that's truly contemptuous.

Mike
 

Jim Rosenthal

Supporter
Re: 1040

Agree emphatically. And the painting analogy is a damn good one, except you can have more fun with a vintage car....:) If I had the money to play in those leagues, I'd be very careful to get the best experts I could before I bought anything. I'd want to know I was getting what I was paying for.

With the quality of the GT40 replicas that are now being built (especially the cars JM and Alistair are building) I don't know that I would WANT a real one. The only advantage of a real one in that instance is that you get invited to meetings that the replica car would not get invited to, am I right? and the difference in cost is huge. For the difference between a really first quality replica, including all the original warts and everything- totally dead-nuts accurate- and a real 60s GT40, I could buy all the other cars I covet AND a place to put them, and probably someone to look after them as well. Just dreaming....I could have that V12 Packard I want, a nice Series 1 E-type Jaguar, a Boxer, a DS21, a Cord 812...boy, the list goes on and on....
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Re: 1040

Mike, Jim,

The Shelby Registry has a nice article explaining how these things happen.

Be it Paintings, Cobras or whatever........

The item is represented as real, but the asking price is somwhat below what it sould bring.

Additionally, the seller appears to know little about the item (better to avoid questions)................the buyer thinks "this person is a fool" I'm going to get a great deal!

Bringing in experts would only alert the seller or even worse other buyers, who would steal his great find.

They tend to keep it quiet and try and close the deal quickly!

Its only human nature, and it happens all the time:)
 
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Charlie Farley

Supporter
Re: 1040

Now, as to the "other " 1040 with parts of the original chassis incorporated, where does that leave us ?
Does Don's have a new chassis, i think it must ??
Answers on an FIA HTP request form please......
 

Jim Rosenthal

Supporter
Re: 1040

The chassis of the Silawsky/Davis car was inspected by Ronnie, I think on a couple of occasions. I do not think it is new. His opinion was that all the chassis parts that were there were original, if I have it right. Look on the RacingIcons web site. There is discussion of this with photo documentation of the repaired damage and melted aluminum from the Monza fire. Robert Ash comments extensively on the car and its history.
 
Re: 1040

Hi guys,

Like many of you, I’m sure, I thought it was about time Ronnie Spain finally posted a message on the forum. But unlike the rest of you, I happen to be him, so I can make him finally do so!

So here it is. My first ever posting on the Internet. It will not be my last.

I imagine there will be quite a few grumbles amongst you along the lines of, “About time too! Thought he was never going to make a posting”, and I can’t say I blame you. Truth is, I’ve been a follower of the forum for many moons, and have almost always liked the way discussions have gone, and the results they have come up with without my intervention, so I have stayed off line, as I kind of feared that if ever I made a posting I’d be swamped with enquiries that I simply would not have the time to handle. Well, now I’ll find out.

So why change the habit of a lifetime? I’ll tell you.

In this world there are two things. Truth, and lies. This is a universal maxim. Even down to things as humble as cars, this is true.

I am a strong believer that everything has a right to exist for what it is, but that nothing has a right to exist for what it is not. Unsurprisingly, I feel this most strongly of all when it comes to GT40s. There is truth, and there are lies.

So let’s start first with the good.

THE TRUTH

Ford GT40 P/1040.

On August 19th this year I had the privilege of being present at Quail Lodge for the public debut of the post-restoration GT40 P/1040. This Scuderia Filipinetti team car ran in 1966 at the Le Mans Trials, the Monza 1000 Kilometres and the Le Mans 24 Hours, and in 1967 ran again at the Le Mans Trials and the Monza 1000 Kilometres. Monza was the car’s last race, as, as has been well recorded, the car suffered an engine fire near the end of the race which sadly was not put out until the car was burnt out. It then suffered the further ignominy of being hoisted off the track by its roof, which, strong though the Ford GT40 chassis is, bent upwards due to the weight of the car. The stored car was later apparently supplied from Georges Filipinetti to former team mechanic Franco Sbarro, as payment for work done. From Sbarro the unrestored car moved on to Charles Gendroz. It was Gendroz who restored the car, straightening out the roof structure by the simple expedient of pulling the car between two tractors (now there was a photo opportunity that was missed!) and working the top of the roof until he was happy with the end result. He then rebuilt the car and painted it gold. The car next moved via Rob de la Rive Box to Harley Cluxton in America, from where it was bought in 1978 by Don Silawsky in Maryland USA, who owned the car for more than the next 30 years. Sadly, much of that time for GT40 P/1040 was spent apart pending a restoration which Don never actually got completed. In 2008, GT40 P/1040 was purchased from Don by its new, and current owner, who entrusted its long postponed restoration to the supreme talents of GT40 restoration specialists, Racing Icons. And on August 19th, as I say, I was present at GT40 P/1040’s post-restoration debut at Quail Lodge.

This, in the most concise terms, is the true, and absolutely provenancable (new word for the English language there!) history of Ford GT40 P/1040.

You can make up your own minds as to the standard of the magnificent Racing Icons restoration from the following few photos, and can check out the restoration on the company’s website at Ford GT40 Restoration - Chassis 1040.


Photos




And with these photos, the true history of GT40 P/1040 is brought bang to rights up to the current day.

Absolute provenance as the same, original Ford GT40 throughout. I’ll probably post proof of that provenance on the forum sometime soon.

Ford GT40 P/1040.

End of story!

And so with that, I hope, established absolutely clearly, we have to sadly move on to…….

THE LIES

Over the years there have been - and indeed still are - certain people with their own agenda who are prepared to claim cars as genuine Ford GT40s which are anything but genuine. Though there are others, and they all know who they are, for the sake of this posting only one such person matters, and that one person is the same former Scuderia Filipinetti mechanic who once owned the true GT40 P/1040, Franco Sbarro.

How to sum up the GT40 activities of Franco Sbarro over the years? Where do I start!

After having been a Filipinetti mechanic, and having worked on both GT40 team cars GT40 P/1039 and 1040, Sbarro left to set up his own business. Sbarro has stated in legal situation that he also helped build Georges Filipinetti’s road car GT40 P/1033 at the factory at Slough, which is totally untrue, as I have documented details of the flight he arrived in England on, on February 7th, to help in the building of 1039 and 1040 and to be instructed in GT40 practice, and GT40 P/1033 had already left for the Graber coachworks on January 16th.

Let me say at this juncture that despite the endless lack of truth, shall we say, regarding GT40s which Sbarro has sadly put in print and stated under legal questioning over the years, I still have a tremendous admiration for the man as an innovative engineer and designer. And he is certainly a most personable individual. But unfortunately, when it comes to GT40s, the truth and he are almost exclusively strangers. I find this very sad, as the bad he has done regarding GT40s has severely tarnished the good he has done in the other outlets of his genius.

But sadly, I must go on.

Because after having owned and disposed of three genuine original Ford GT40s in the 70s, GT40 P/1033, 1040 and 1079, Sbarro then in the 80s built up a series of at least ten chassis of his own to enable himself to build GT40 lookalikes, and despite having long since ceased to be in possession of any of the three original Ford GT40s he had once indeed owned, Sbarro decided to “rebuild” all three of those cars, claiming three of his own brand new scratch built chassis to be the original chassis of GT40 P/1033, 1040 and 1079.

Utterly outrageous!

To the rest of the world the mathematical equation was simple: 3 – 3 = 0. But totally undaunted by this mathematical full-stop, Sbarro rewrote the laws of mathematics, and coming up with 3 – 3 = 3, he then “rebuilt” the three cars he had long since ceased to own!

I can’t state things any clearer than that, and to anyone with a brain in their head I shouldn’t need to.

But some people are either not so numerically equipped in the brain department, or were duped entirely by Sbarro, as Sbarro found customers for each of the three fakes he built up and claimed as the original Ford GT40s, and despite voluminous proof now being in circulation courtesy of myself, astonishing claims to those three fakes being the originals in question went on for years, and still go on in at least one case, though I live in hope that the same claims seem to have quietened down for the other two

And the shameful known continuing claim, is that the fake scratch-built Sbarro 1980s car of Pierre Bos, is the original 1966 Scuderia Filipinetti GT40 P/1040.

Mr. Bos’ delusions have now reached an all-time high, and on his website he is claiming that “experts” have valued his “original” “GT40 P/1040” at 1,850,000 Euros. God help the poor sod who pays him that for his fake.

Because “fake” is precisely what Pierre Bos’ car is, as long as it continues to be claimed as a 1966 Ford GT40, when it is a 1980s scratch-build by Franco Sbarro.

I was going to illustrate the Sbarro chassis of the Bos car here for the world to see how extreme are the differences between a Ford GT40 chassis and a Sbarro, but I’m not going to do that after all, as I will not sully the true GT40 P/1040 by including photos of the fake in this same first posting.

So I will settle for having used the photos I have done of the beautifully restored true GT40 P/1040 from Quail Lodge, and will hope (no doubt forlornly) that Pierre Bos will finally come to his senses, and stop the ridiculous charade of claiming his car to be a genuine Ford GT40, and accept it for what it instead truly is, a genuine Sbarro.

I will hope, but I will not expect.

But I still must cover another few points before I finish this first posting on the forum.

Because though the fake 1079 has apparently long since disappeared from the horizon, the fake 1033 Sbarro built up is still out there, and when last heard of, was still being claimed as the original 1966 car. An unbelievable coincidence is that the very day Sbarro entered into a contract to …. “restore” …. “original chassis GT40 P 1033” …..“from 1966” ….for customer Albert Eggs, the absolutely proven genuine GT40 P/1033 had that very same day, 23rd August 1983, completed its restoration at the hands of Phil Reilly in California. A coincidence par excellence.

And Sbarro was caught out lying in court in 1994, changing his story from his previous vehemence under previous legal questioning that he had used the original chassis in his “rebuild” of 1033, to him instead admitting having used one of his own chassis. Asked about this change in his claims, Sbarro said that due to the heat of the fire 1033 had had (in 1970), plus all the subsequent years stored outdoors, he had had to at the last minute decide to utilise one of his own new chassis in the build up, for the safety of his client. [Couldn’t have had more to do with the fact that you hadn’t actually seen the original chassis since you sold it to David Piper 9 years earlier, so you didn’t have it to use anyway, could it Franco?] Unbelievably, as opposed to denouncing Sbarro as the liar he had been caught out, in court, to be, the court then proceeded with Sbarro’s trial, without even breaking stride, and even more incredibly decreed at the end that Sbarro was entirely innocent…..and then further ruled that the by then at last admitted Sbarro chassis was the original Ford GT40 P/1033.

Utterly incomprehensible!

The absolutely provenanced (another new word) GT40 P/1033 was photographed by me in action at Laguna Seca the very next day after Sbarro signed his fraudulent contract to rebuild that self-same original chassis for Albert Eggs. The true GT40 P/1033 has been a regular attendee until recently on the American historic race tour, and is currently available for purchase in California through Bruce Canepa.

I’ll be happy to help any interested purchaser with all the information they could possibly want. Similarly. I would be happy to prove the absolute authenticity of the original GT40 P/1033 and GT40 P/1040 in any court, in any land, and to supply the proof that the other car is a fake. The authenticity of both the true cars is absolute! No claims for any other cars to be either of these two genuine Ford GT40s can be treated with anything other than the utter contempt they deserve.

But, sadly, one more Sbarro fake needs yet to be dealt with. Because Sbarro has also built up a fake which he claimed to be GT40 P/1048. Having taken in the genuine GT40 P/1048 for the intended purposes of restoration in December 1979, Sbarro instead built up one of his own original Sbarro chassis, and supplied that car to the owner of the genuine GT40 P/1048 after his “restoration”. Oh yes, almost forgot to mention. In June 1980, six months after taking in the genuine GT40 P/1048 to restore it, Sbarro, despite not apparently being its owner one would have to assume, sold the still totally unrestored original car to Italy!

And I think that’s about it for now.

Three original GT40s owned by Sbarro.

Three original GT40s sold by Sbarro.

And with that, no GT40s any longer owned by Sbarro.

Everything after that fact perpetrated by Sbarro or his customers in the name of those three original Ford GT40 chassis numbers is fakery and lies.

And as for Mr Bos, all I can say is you have brought upon yourself whatever damage befalls you regarding your fake Ford GT40, since, and I will say this now one last time, though your car is a genuine Sbarro, it is a fake Ford! And you have known that since day one.

So to the forum members and readers I say, enjoy the beautiful continued existence of the genuine, original GT40 P/1033 and GT40 P/1040.

But unless the Sbarro “1033” has now at last been accepted for the true car it is, a Sbarro (which it may have done, in which case congratulations and thanks to its owner), and as long as Pierre Bos continues to perpetuate the lie that his car is genuine Ford GT40 1040, treat those cars as the fakes they can only be regarded as.

And I close with what I almost began with: - “I am a strong believer that everything has a right to exist for what it is, but that nothing has a right to exist for what it is not.” No matter what you chose to call them, replicas, recreations, kit-cars or whatever nomenclature, provided it is not being claimed for what it is not, I’m all in favour, and more power to all your enthusiastic elbows. You have my full support.

But lies are an entirely different matter. I won’t tolerate them.

So to the owner of the freshly restored GT40 P/1040, and to whomsoever is lucky enough to be the next owner of GT40 P/1033, I say, enjoy your beautiful original Ford GT40s.

I’ll deal with the lies of the other cars for you.

End of first posting, guys. Much more to come.


Ronnie Spain
 

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Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Re: 1040

Mr Spain,

I want to give you a very big welcome to our humble fourm!!!!!

I have long been a fan of yours since I found a copy of your wonderful, little blue book in a used book store. I have worn it out, and another and will be getting your latest!

I'm looking forward to hearing more from you, we are honored by your post. Once again WELCOME!!!
 
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Re: 1040

Mr. Spain,

We/I am honored sir. Welcome! Without trying to sound over the top.....you're a GOD around this forum. When you speak sir we ALL listen. Thanks for your input and lets see that post count go up soon. Can someone get Mr. Spain an Honorary Memebership Please!
 

Rick Muck- Mark IV

GT40s Sponsor
Supporter
Ronnie,

ABOUT BLOODY TIME!!!!

Thanks for all of your efforts in the past and for providing a book that despite having read it cover-to-cover a dozen times, still provides entertainment in the "office" (dad, why does your GT40 book smell?).

I look forward to your continued informative postings.
 

Randy V

Moderator-Admin
Staff member
Admin
Lifetime Supporter
As the others have said - Welcome to GT40s.com MR Spain...

May the truth always prevail... Thank you sir for setting the record straight!
 
I for one find it such a shame, it could be that a Sbarro replica would originally have an intrinsic value as "a genuine Sbarro replica" in the same way a "genuine Holman Moody replica" would but his actions have IMO ruined that.

Lets face it, people are prepared to pay the premium for the H-M replicas as well as Gelscoe replicas. A genuine Sbarro replica of P/1040 *as* a replica *could* have been a good thing. :(

As for Mr Spain, a very warm welcome. :)
 
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