917 Crash

OK you "Lemans" (the movie) experts....

I needed some encouragement so I watched it again on VHS.
I understand that the Ferrari wreck scene was a Ferrari
body on a Lola chassis. Was the 917 wrecked by Steve McQueen
later in the movie also a Lola chassis?

MikeD
 
Yes, it was on a Lola chassis and if you can freeze frames you will see parts of the YELLOW chassis showing during the flailing bodywork shots. It was a perfect crash setup but they did not think about the underbody showing. Mind you , you have to be sharp eyed during the normal film speed to pick up on it.

Graham @ GTA.
 
The crash u have looked in the movie was a real crash done by a british GREAT Pilot named David Piper.During the make up of this movie David was asked to simulate a crash using the 917 drived in the movie by Steve mc queen(steeve was not a 917 driver in reality..).They asked this to him cause he was the greatest experience pilot in 917 driving(he was one of the few able to beat in Silverstone a Sir named Jim Clark,..and I believe this is enough..).
For that movie Porsche gave maximum assistance and provide full car service,cause they want to be part of one of the few NICE movie about cars(only in my opinion is better Grand Prix..).
David in that crash lost a part of his lag,due to the front suspension coming inside cockpit.
The porsche was almost completely destroyed,and later rebuild.
Since that day david piper linked his life forever to 917,and also today he drives it in historical classic races.
I have the lucky to meet him in monza,and also if over 80s remains a LION as only few british pilots can be,and he will drive forever his own 917 (actually he bought an original..but i am sure he uses a replica for races, cause drives really too fast to risk destroy a so value car.)
If u go to any Uk car exhibition be sure u will found him,and i suggest u to find him..cause he is really a living legend.

After about 30 yrs an original 917 was found near Le Mans track.It is not clear if the car has been stolen at the time, but was a complete one,and not just a rolling chassis.
piper-3.jpg


http://www.brdc.co.uk/brdcarchive.cfm/flag/3/picid/243
http://www.racecar.co.uk/isp/david.html

my english is not so good, hope u understand all.
Paul
Italy
 
I read somewhere that the Steve McQueen crash in the movie LeMans was an accident in itself. According to the story, the 917 bodied Lola was setup with a radio controlled steering, throttle, etc. Apparently it "got away" from the guy who was "driving it" before intended, but the camera guys were lucky enough to capture the incident on film. Even at the relatively cheap cost of a Lola in 1970, Solar Productions (Steve McQueen's production company)was reluctant to try for a second take. The first and only take was certainly good enough for me. Pretty scary!

This story may or may not relate to the "airborne" Ferrari crash in the movie, but either way, it's a neat bit of movie/racing trivia. An "accidental" accident!


Bill
 
Love GT40,

I do not know how you have come by your information but it is definitely misinformed.

I can assure you that the crash scene was not Davids (it was not filmed) and he most definitely does not drive a replica.

Regards,

Graham @ GTA Racing. ( A friend of Davids and forever grateful to him.)
 
Hi Graham,
here links about what i said..:
http://www.grandprix.com/gpe/drv-pipdav.html
and here:
http://www.racecar.co.uk/isp/david.html

I think he was driving a replica in Monza looking the way he was doing his exhibition, just i note he simply drove too fast there,and the only pilots driving so fast in those exhibitions are driving usually replicas,(also another guy from this forum told me he probably was driving a replica). In Monza he was driving the Hippy Car 917 blue/green.
917_Hippycar_side.jpg


Current owners of hippy car are listed on this website:
http://www.cknet.org.uk/html/rennsport.htm

I have not the lucky to consider my self a friend of David, just I am his fan.
If u know something more correct, just tell me...i think this can be the right place to have good and correct infos.

The story i knew about this pilot was this one, if u know different,just tell us.
From the infos i have he should drive this car:
PIPER%201000-3.jpg


Tnx
Paul
 
Paul,

David and his mechanic, Stubbs, look after the "hippy" 917 and the green and white car ( The glare makes it look all green) is Davids, from which so much of my current, and subsequent builds, are based on.
The lady in the picture is Davids wife, Elizabeth.

NEITHER OF THESE CARS ARE REPLICAS.

A unique feature of Davids 917 is that it is the only one with a removable front nose section which gives it fantastic accessability but also makes you feel even more vunerable !!!!

Regards,

Graham @ GTA.
 
Great infos Graham, i cannot know this.
I was just wondering to see the hippy car instead of his classic green/white one,and so probably the misunderstanding come from that.
But i cannot know this,as also i cannot know the difference inside the car about the front.

And then again, about the accident...what do u know.
Here i am not the only one knowing the story as i told u, but if u know it different and more exactly i would like to know.

Thnx Graham
Paul /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Some interesting history about Steve McQueen’ s film Le Mans made in 1970. I did a post on this a long time ago but as there are now many new members the story would have been missed. Also in view of the current posts probably worth repeating. I’ve also added some more.



The background to all this is due to my friend Bud Rossler, who with his brother Ed, ran Stirling Moss’s racing team in the 1960s, the Stirling Moss Automobile Racing Team (SMART) – good name, sounds like it belongs to James Bond!



Steve McQueen’s Solar Productions borrowed many racing sports cars for the film and one car was a Lola T70 that belonged to an English driver, Robin Orme and Bud, as something of a T70 expert, was to look after the car during the lengthy filming session. During the making of the film Bud became friendly with Steve and his crew and when his obvious talent was spotted he was offered a salary four times greater than he was earning. He accepted and that move was to see him in film special effects for the next 14 years in many parts of the world. I could write a book!



Bud was asked to assist with radio controlling the full size cars for the accident sequences and as old and rather worn out Lola T70s were more expendable than original Ferraris and Porsche 917s, replica Ferrari and 917 bodies were mounted on the Lola chassis as confirmed by Graham (GTA917)..



The first scene was set up at White House corner and two French guys were placed side by side on a high scaffold so that they could have an elevated view of the circuit. One was to radio control the throttle and the other the steering,

quite a tricky operation. The 917 with dummy driver at the wheel was set on its way and then the throttle man gave far too much stick. The mock-up 917 went into a wild tail slide, hit the Armco barrier and tore off the radio aerial which was taped to the long tail and which also controlled the steering. The steering man was frantically trying to get the 917 on the straight and narrow but there was no response. The out of control 917 sped along the track smashing itself to bits against both sides of the Armco. More by good luck than good judgement the accident scene was so perfect that it was included in the film. Many people were under the impression that it was a genuine film of David Piper’s accident. By coincidence both accidents happened at the same place and were almost identical with Piper’s car slewing from side to side against the Armco barrier just the film star 917. People who thought that David’s accident was the one in the film can therefore be forgiven!







David’s car broke in half in mid-flight and the only thing that held both halves together with his foot stuck under the throttle. The wreck landed in a ditch with brake fluid dripping on to the open wound, which contributed to the eventual amputation. Two nuns were first on the scene and Bud who was filming on another part of the circuit was there within minutes.



In hospital in England when David was depressed and pondering his life without a right foot and motor racing, former Ferrari engineer and works driver, the late Mike Parkes walked into his room with legless WW11 flying ace Douglas Bader. Bader grinned at Piper, dropped his trousers and said, ‘Look at me, old boy, you have nothing to worry about!’ David said that that was a huge wake up call that motivated his path to recovery.



In February this year in Cape Town, David (born December 2, 1930), told me that at a recent classic race at Le Mans he got the 917 up to 210 mph down the Mulsanne straight. ‘You’ve obviously forgotten!’, I said.



Bader and Piper are without a shadow of a doubt members of the British Bulldog breed!



In the next scene a mock-up radio controlled Ferrari was set off on the start and finish straight between the pits and grandstand. As it accelerated, locked in second gear, with dummy at the wheel it suddenly veered left and smashed into the Armco.

Bud pondered the problem and realised that the steering column was locked solid and would only respond to radio control. He also figured out that a pair of human hands on a steering wheel would constantly make slight adjustments and movements to allow for changing conditions and surfaces. It clearly need some form of slack and then he remembered that he had once seen a computer clutch drive that could do the trick.



There is an airfield behind the grandstand at Le Mans and Solar Productions had its own plane, a Cessna or Piper, there on stand by. Bud asked Steve if his pilot could fly him to Paris and off they went. In Paris Bud found exactly what he wanted and rushed back to the circuit. He cut the steering column in half and inserted the clutch drive. For the next run he sat on the back of the next Ferrari mock-up ready to grab the steering wheel but all went well, the clutch drive was perfect.

















In another scene a Ferrari was to crash into the forest over a hidden ramp at Indianopolis corner. The scene was to be in the wet but it was a sunny day. A water truck sprayed water in front of the car and all over the circuit but not underneath the car. When the radio controlled throttle was activated the old Chevvy V8 got wheelspin and when the rear wheels hit the wet section the Ferrari went sideways into the Armco. Another write off!



When they finally got this scene right the Ferrari flew so far that the camera man had to run like hell to get out of the way!



One happy memory Bud has was how at the end of the day’s work the film crew would often have a barbeque and how Steve would join them for a chat and jokes. He also remembers Steve’s young son riding around on his Husqvarna scambler.



Sad that Steve McQueen, an icon, a film star and racing driver, with so much more to give had to be taken by cancer. He rates as my all time great and I’m sorry that I never met him. He used to call on Stirling Moss when I worked for him and I believe that I missed him by one day in the office. I did however see him jump out of taxi in Bond St and sprint across the road in typical McQueen style. In the ‘Great Escape’ he did the bike jump scene over the fence himself. If I remember correctly the scene was shot on Sir John Whitmore’s estate in Essex and a whole group of racing drivers, including Bob Olthoff who told me the story, were there to watch. Great years, no wonder nostalgia is looming large!



If you rush off to your local friendly video shop for ‘Le Mans’ you’ll see the scenes mentioned above.



The wail of a Ferrari V12 and the angry grunt of a stock block V8 down the Mulsanne straight were symphonies of a different kind! Somehow at night it sounded even better! Will I ever forget.



Enjoy life while you can,

Andre 40.
 
"If I remember correctly the scene was shot on Sir John Whitmore’s estate in Essex"

Really? blimey, I'd like to know if this is so.
 
[ QUOTE ]
In the ‘Great Escape’ he did the bike jump scene over the fence himself. If I remember correctly the scene was shot on Sir John Whitmore’s estate in Essex

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't think so, although Sir John went with Steve McQueen to Germany for the filming. They were great friends.

It's not widely known that Bud Ekins was the man who did the Great Escape jump stunts - they cut Bud's hair and bleached it - although Steve McQueen actually had a go (and succeeded) at the jump a few days before, when the cameras weren't rolling ... Bud got paid over $1,000 for this stunt, the first time this sort of money changed hands for a bike jump.

Cheers
 

Bill Hara

Old Hand
GT40s Supporter
Le Mans the movie

Getting back to the movie, at about 10 min and 6 seconds into the movie, a white GT40 appears in picture for about 2 seconds. Does anybody have an idea of what car it is?

Another interesting scene was the fair ground shot of the miniature GT40 karts racing along side the track. Where did these karts come from and do any still exist?

Just curious.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Bill.
 
Hi all,

I stand corrected in those er....um..special shoes!

Problem, as always, is that with the passing of time the difference between the truth and urban legend, well, becomes urban legend!

Enjoy the video anyway.

Andre 40
 
I too have spoken with David Piper and his wife Elizabeth. When I showed her the picture of the rear of the crashed 917 from the book "A kiss of death". She said that Mr Piper had landed up in another field with the front part of the car. The shots of crashes with 917 in the Le mans film were not those of the real David Pipers crash. Since Mr Piper was invoved with making the Lola Ferraris and lending a Lola T70 for the film most of the cars were fakes. As a prevoius post said the Ferrari that crashes accross the track was a Lola based one and as well in slow motion you can see a diffent colour (yellow ) you can even make out the Lola number.
On a lighter note those kart GT40 have come up in auctions. I know that a 1965 Ferrari 330P2 model had a 4.3hp gasoline engine I have postcards of both the Ferrari and Ford. They are in a Frederick C. Crawford Auto aviation Museum Western Reserve Histrical Society University Circle Cleveland Ohio 44106. I am sure these were built for the childs karting circuit specifically. However, I thought the ones on the the films I've seen the Infernal Carosel and Lemans were electric???
Regards Allan
 
Just read Peter Morgan's book on the 917...very well done.
I was surprised to see that the 917 ran a 4-speed trans.
I would have guessed a 5-speed would have been used
on a 12 cylinder engine to keep the revs up off turns.
Was it a case of not wanting to develop a new trans ($$$)?

MikeD
 
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