An SL-C is in my future

[Alex]

funny, summit was selling this same engine for less than $6500, then the next catalog it went up, and again went up at the next catalog, with warranty from gm. makes me wonder if gm moving up the ladder on their production cars had some left over inventory. these price jumps all happened within a year.

somebody buy that car at the bottom so i can get in on a rcr!

Are you sure it was the same engine - there are several 'stages' of it (e.g., ls 376, 480, 525). the 525 was only been out for ~8-10mths or so

 

[Jim T]

Jim, I bought my engine/pcm combo from Fred Beans parts in PA. The engine was shipped out in about 3 days. There's certainly other vendors and choices but the pricing was right, parts in stock and shipped out promptly. I bought the LS3/376 (480hp) with PCM/wiring harness and the CTS-V front accessory kit from them.

LS376/480 with computer and harness

Results for GM Performance Engines:LS Series

I also considered the 525hp crate but after goggling this engine (approx. an extra $1g's for engine/pcm/harness as compared to the 480hp), I did not find enough feedback on any idle/low rpm drive-ability or possible surging.....real life driving experience - not just dyno charts and 1/4 mile stuff. What's going to be your car purpose re: a street machine, track car etc.

Thanks Mike, I'll add Fred Beans Parts ont to my list of possible suppliers.

It will be a street car (toy) and some track day events.

Thanks again for the input!

Jim

 

[Jim T]

I couldn't even find dyno stuff on it, other than GM propaganda!

Imho, I'm disappointed in my 525.

In terms of idle, it does have a nice choppy idle to it.
RCR superlite SLC First Start - YouTube

It does buck a little bit at low speed, but not horribly so. I'm not certain if it's the engine or the engine/clutch combo, but it is a bitch to get going from a stop. Normally I'm used to easing off the clutch and giving a little bit of gas. Here you need a lot a bit of gas because it loves to stall. Even on the dyno my tuner was swearing up and down at it. Adjusting the ?idle? timing though helped, so it's not as stall happy. Honestly, my 408w with a big-ass cam is easier to drive.

I think I would hate life if I had to drive this engine in traffic constantly.

In terms of power, it was a bit of a let down - barely 530 flywheel hp with headers and intake. Wayne also has quite a bit of extras (ported heads, etc..), so it's not fair to look at his engine. And, honestly, if I'm going through that nonsense of buying a crate engine and doing heads-off work, then i'll just do what I did for my 917 - go to Katech and buy engine. Yes, they're expensive, but there's no 2yr wait and I know I won't get an engine where rocker arms are 90* off the valve spring at 0 miles and I'm told it's due to "shipping damages"

In terms of GM build quality, hah. I originally bought my crate engine because I wanted peace of mind knowing it was assembled by the factory and would stay together forever just like an LS3 corvette. And then Shane told me the horror stories of the crate engines he's put into cars (e.g., no oil pressure, oil leaks out the rms, etc...). So I figured maybe Shane just has massive bad luck. And then I searched LS1tech and found at least 25% of people have problems with their LS crate engines. And then as I was working on mine I found numerous issues (e.g., crap in the valve covers, flexplate was only on hand-tight, waterpump was only on handtight) that shouldn't be. But it survived the dyno so I'm hoping maybe just the accessories weren't bolted on snugly and that's the worst of it.

Oh, and warranty, hahahahahhahahahaha. I bought it for the warranty, but then I read on LS1tech about your chances of success in the event of a claim.

So, in a nutshell, I would not do EFI again (I <3 carb) and I would not buy a GM crate again - it's not a sleeper and build quality can be suspect.

Also, don't buy the GM ECU thinking 'oh, it's for the 525 or the 480 so I won't need a dyno tune, it will be pretty close'. My a/f was pretty wonky and my timing was horrible - at some points I was at 15* timing

WOW!


Alex, I felt very comfortable with my decision to go with the LS376-525HP crate; until I read your post.
you forced me to go back and do some more homework. But that's what I love about forums, they are real eye openers!


Thanks for the benefit of your experiences.


Jim


P.S I love the sound of your cam!

 

[Jim T]

Welcome to the boards Jim!

I run the ls376/480 with a 997 tt g50/70 I think. Track tested and running without a hiccup. Plenty of power to chase down anything on the track.

With all due respect, I'm never going back to carbs again. This was just to easy. :thumbsup:

Dan, I sent you a P.M.

Jim

 

[Dean Lampe]

Got your PM.

Dean

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Anyone that wants to use my contacts for purchasing a crate engine/harness gets my discount and pays our supplier directly...saving you Michigan 6% sales tax and also free freight to RCR...

We make zero $ on these deals but it allows our customers peace of mind and a good deal.

 

[Alex]

WOW!

Alex, I felt very comfortable with my decision to go with the LS376-525HP crate; until I read your post.
you forced me to go back and do some more homework. But that's what I love about forums, they are real eye openers!


Thanks for the benefit of your experiences.

Jim

P.S I love the sound of your cam!

It's not a horrible engine by any means (although my post probably makes it sound as such ) it's just that I don't think I would buy another one since it's not exactly what I was hoping for. For example, I was hoping to add on headers and intake and tune and put down some good numbers; instead those things just helped me get to the advertised number. I wanted a warranty so if it broke in the first few years I'd be fixed/replaced at no cost ..... and then I read the posts about just how easy they make it on you if you have problems.

But, for some people, it's probably a more-than-acceptable engine. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Anyone buying from our supplier will have no issues with GM warranty....period.
I have been assured of this.

 

[Jim T]

Anyone that wants to use my contacts for purchasing a crate engine/harness gets my discount and pays our supplier directly...saving you Michigan 6% sales tax and also free freight to RCR...

We make zero $ on these deals but it allows our customers peace of mind and a good deal.

Thanks Fran, I wasn't aware that this was an option. Dose this also apply to a gearbox?


I'll be talking to you soon.


Jim

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Yes it does....

We are closed until Jan 2nd but as you see no rest for the weary....:stunned:

 

[mark b.]

Are you sure it was the same engine - there are several 'stages' of it (e.g., ls 376, 480, 525). the 525 was only been out for ~8-10mths or so

yup, had to back and look cause i posted on another forum, on 1/12/12 i posted jegs had the ct525 for $6700, summit was $8800, so i was a little in error, maybe in the price also but i thought i saw it for less prior.

 

[mark b.]

In case you don't know, MBrooks is a racing rock star! He was the guy that really helped me this year at Run and Gun. I guess I didn't realize you were hanging around here, Mark.

haha funny dean, i was really spying on that fine machine. hope you got everything worked out.. sounds like you ended well.

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

I think our suppliers current 2012 approx pricing for a stock LS3 is $6200, LS376 is $6600, LS525 $7600

 

[Alex]

yup, had to back and look cause i posted on another forum, on 1/12/12 i posted jegs had the ct525 for $6700, summit was $8800, so i was a little in error, maybe in the price also but i thought i saw it for less prior.

There's your issue - the CT525 is not the LS376 525. They're similar but different. CT is the circle track engine and is sealed. Also, it uses different parts (e.g., oil pan)

 

[Stefan Tuineag]

Lingenfelter has a nice crate engine, LS3 base, 550hp, custom build for $10k (hallow valves, titanium retainers, double springs, custom cam, ported heads etc etc.). This will be my choice for a SL-C

 

[Jim T]

I think our suppliers current 2012 approx pricing for a stock LS3 is $6200, LS376 is $6600, LS525 $7600

Fran, is your reseller price of $7,600 for the LS525 a complete “Turn-Key” engine including the ECU, Harness, Sensors and the Front Accessory Drive System w/Serpentine setup or is that extra?


Thanks,
Jim

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

No its the GM crate engine....as supplied by GM...Direct from GM in the factory crate.

All of the other items you list are not included with any GM crate engine I know of either, but my supplier can supply them too...

 

[Mike]

....price of $7,600 for the LS525 a complete “Turn-Key” engine including the ECU, Harness, Sensors and the Front Accessory Drive System w/Serpentine setup or is that extra?


Thanks,
Jim

Likely in the ball park of $8,700 for the engine with pcm/wiring harness/sensors. And, the CTS-V frt. accessory kit is in the $795.00 range or $9,500 total. Ya just got to decide if the extra 45hp (over the LS376) with the more radical cam..... drive-ability?.... for an extra $1,000.00 is your desire. Personally I didn't see the benefit regarding the additional cost. It's your car though and you must make yourself happy

Oh - forgot... figure shipping costs also $175.00 to $275.00+ - depending on the freight carrier and where to, even though I've seen some adverts lately that state "free shipping" for a limited time.

Just get it from Fran and make your life easier.

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Personally the 480hp is the best deal and has plenty of headroom ..

The more serious question is really the transaxle...buy the best you can afford as its much cheaper and easier to upgrade the engine in the future, than it is the trans.

 

[Jim T]

No its the GM crate engine....as supplied by GM...Direct from GM in the factory crate.

All of the other items you list are not included with any GM crate engine I know of either, but my supplier can supply them too...

Fran, the reason I thought that the ECU & Front Drive Assembly might be included in your $7,600 price for the LS 525 is because Pace Performance sells their LS3 525 HP (GMPP part # 1959233)for $7,399.95 and that's
WITHOUT A RESELLER DISCOUNT!


Add$1,920.86 for the ECU kit and Front Assembly Drive System for a total of $9,320.76 delivered, no shipping.
Either I'm not doing a fair comparison or your supplier is not giving you much of a discount?


Jim