Carrol Shelby in Octane Magazine

[Strobe]

Interesting reading in the UK magazine "Octane" from this month. Carrol Shelby talks about the Cobra, how he get the project together after he got the body and chassis from AC. He then goes on to attack the replica market, targeting specifically companies who have claimed their remakes better than the original. He proclaims everything not built by him counterfeit.........unless you are Jimmy Price who he now endorses.

He is an Icon and a brilliant man with a track record difficult to surpass however his intolerance for the replica market surprises me. Even if a company claims to improve on the past, I say "so what!" The track record cannot be beaten and most everyone knows that.

Only can see his point of view against individuals claiming fraudulantly that their copy is original,........Other than I belive he should be proud of replicatation the AC vehicle he tuned for success!

This is a far cry from SAFIR who have the GT40 rights and have posted on this forum and are much more tolerant of modern remakes....

Would be intersted in hearing what people think of his position

 

[Dean Lampe]

If it wasn't for the replica market where would Carrol Shelby be today? There have been a lot of great drivers, better than him, that have been forgotten by the public at large. He should be a little more humble. I admire what he has created but I don't care for the man.

 

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

Years ago, before he re-entered the market, CS was quoted in Road & Track as being "flattered" that people were replicating the Cobra. He had abandoned the market and had no interest in the cars until such time as he saw profit in them.

Like reuniting with your disowned son once he won the lottery......

Rick

 

[Strobe]

I guess he makes a business out of law suits.........


And from the “What Goes Around Comes Around” Dept. ...

SHELBY COUNTER SUED FOR $250+ MILLION

BY WILHELM MOTOR WORKS


Legendary Automaker Receives Massive Counter Suit in Trademark Infringement Case


WOODLAND HILLS, CA ˆ September 2006 ˆ Carroll Shelby International, Inc. received a setback in its trademark infringement case against Jon Wilhelm and Wilhelm Motor Works since a federal court judge has allowed a 250+ million dollar counter suit to proceed against Carroll Shelby Licensing and the Carroll Hall Shelby Trust. The case hinges on whether Wilhelm and his company infringed on trademark laws in the fall of last year and whether or not Shelby acted fairly in its attempts to withdraw the licensing rights given to Wilhelm.

In June of 2005, Wilhelm received, as a settlement to a prior lawsuit, a lucrative license from Shelby to make an unlimited number of Continuation Shelby Mustangs ˆ modified and restored classic Ford Mustang vehicles from 1964 to 1970 that are detailed to replicate, in appearance and operation, Shelby Mustangs from the same era. Wilhelm's license included the manufacturing and marketing of the Shelby G.T.350C, G.T.500C, G.T.350CR, and G.T.500CR vehicles on an "exclusive" basis. Other notable vehicles of this program include the G.T.500E "Eleanor" and the G.T.350SR.

Less than five months later, Shelby informed Wilhelm that his multi-million dollar license had been revoked. The purported reason: Wilhelm had distributed less than 100 marketing flyers that Shelby claims were unapproved and had shown the prototype vehicles before they were completed. "The claims in the Shelby case against me and subsequent press release that I was offering 'knock-offs' blatantly disregard the license I received from Shelby to produce these cars and related products. A public company should not be able to disregard the law and damage a small entrepreneur this way."

Wilhelm's federal counterclaim alleges, among other things, that Shelby breached the licensing agreement, interfered with Wilhelm's contractual and business relationships, and failed to support and promote Wilhelm as an official Shelby licensee.

Trial is set for January of 2007.

Jon Wilhelm of Wilhelm Motor Works and Andres Quintana of Quintana Law Group, APC, are confident that a jury will find that their claims have merit and that Wilhelm has been unjustly damaged by the actions of Shelby. For more information on either party, please refer to Wihelm Motor Works © 2005 - 2006

 

[roaldin]

His "articles" are just ad's - marketing opportunities.

Look at the articles by the others that have written similar columns in Octane, in general they are great stuff.
His are just ad's. I'm sure the other advertisors are angry that they're having to pay for their little sections while he gets paid for a whole page.

He ruined the magazine for me and I have cancelled my subscription so that I don't feel the need to once again tear a page out of it. I didn't buy the magazine to get angry.

Carrying on about others not designing cars... I've got an idea for my own car, I'll get a chassis that someone else has designed and built, something like, oh I don't know, an old AC, then I'll chuck an engine in it that another has designed, a Ford V8 would be good, that way I've "designed" my own car, and it's not even a replica!
Oh wait, that'd make me a Hot-Rodder wouldn't it? Just like him.

How a replica has ANYTHING to do with disrespecting people who've driven "his" cars beats me. If anything, respect for those who drove cars of that era is part of why people replicate the cars.

Bring back Rowan, Bring back Stirling, bring back Mrs Mason, anything!
Just get rid of the chicken farmer. He gives me hives.

Tim.

 

[Paul]

I'm with you roaldin.
I love the cars, can't stand the man.

Mrs. Mason's columns were rather good and gave a different perspective on the usually testosterone fuelled world of motor racing.

Paul

 

[J. Salmon]

I just received a copy of "The Cobra Ferrari Wars" and have read the first couple of chapters. It is admittedly a pro-Shelby anti Enzo publication - not the cars per say, but the people. I understand that the author was not a fan of Enzo's way of motivating his drivers, and there is certainly implication that he pushed many beyond their limits such that some were killed. I don't doubt this a bit.

The success of the Cobra is noted to be the quality of the people and the team approach. So far in my reading, the car has been regarded by the drivers as a bit of a piece of sh!#. CS appears to have had one good idea: a european chassis (considered the best at the time) and an american made engine (the more powerful and more reliable). Which engine and which chassis came down to who was willing to supply what. Aston Martin turned down the offer to make the chassis. Ford was motivated to beat Chevy. So it's not like CS had seen some perfect design in his head and made it happen, the Cobra was built by chance and it won by the persistence and skill of those involved.

I have also talked to 2 people who have owned both original Cobra's and replicas. Both have reiterated the obvious: the original cars have a Jello chassis and the modern replicas are better in every way.

Sorry Mr Shelby, but my bargain fiberglass bodied replica is more powerful, lighter, stiffer, brakes better, has better steering, and has a much more rigid chassis. But I am sure the originals were superior cars in some measure. I am just not sure what ruler to use.

On a side note, everyone I have ever heard describe the 250 GTO praises it's balance. If I were to be able to choose between one original to have, mine would be the GTO before an original Cobra or a Daytona coupe... sorry...

 

[Mark Worthington]

Shelby has squandered most of the good will and reputation he earned back in his glory days, and he's now as much a laughing stock as he is an icon.

I read a great quote recently in another forum on a thread where Bill Clinton's desire to re-shape his legacy was being discussed: "Bill Clinton is the Carrol Shelby of politics."

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

I agree. I find it interesting also that Kirkham Motorsports, an outfit that I admire a lot, has been spared the inevitable Shelby lawsuit, at least for the moment, since they actually build cars for Shelby...evidently when they found him a heart transplant they put in only the mechanical part. Even the Tin Woodsman got a better deal than that.

 

[Pete K.]

Just remember that his focus is marketing: first, middle, and last. It all makes sense then.

 

[Howard Jones]

Hummmm..... I have often wondered why many people I know in the Ford motorsports community roll their eyes when his name comes up. I guess I know now. I guess it doesnt really matter. I'll never have a real one or enough money to get sued.

It is interesting how unanimous the comments seam to be on the subject.

 

[Charlie Farley]

Too right about the mechanical part of his heart.
Shame they didnt tinker with the brain while he was under.
Maybe they couldnt find it.
The moral part of the heart, i mean.....

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

I wouldn't buy a vintage Cobra, even if I had the $$$. I'd buy a Kirkham and order it with the 289 body. I wouldn't buy a modern Cobra either, and put money in CS's pocket. I don't care how much money he gives to charity- he's still a mean old git.

 

[CliffBeer]

Maybe we're being a little too harsh on Mr. Shelby - after all, he did pour his blood sweat and tears into Cobras and GT40 in the late 60's and brought a lot of success and awareness of these cars to the masses. So, perhaps he does earn some philosophical or ethical (but not legal) right to have some influence over these designs, and their copies, even today. I would say it should be more of a persuasive influence (led through the market forces of original "Shelby" designation) rather than exclusionary legal forces.

Old people tend to get grumpy in their advanced years....maybe it's just his getting old that's the problem.

 

[Mike Dozier]

Nope...he's just bitter over all the money others made/make on the Cobra
that he ain't getting a cut. It's all about the money...

I admire what Carrol did in the 1960's....but the story should have ended then...I see very little after that I'd be proud of, with the noted exception of his Heart Fund.

MikeD

 

[Bruce B]

I respect the man for his accomplishments, but his tirades and trademark lawsuits over "Cobra" rub me the wrong way. He is a LOUSY businessman. Everything he did as a business has failed, often quite miserably. Only after others created the market for "Cobra" clones did he show his "indignation" at anyone using his "creation". What happened to AC ? How about Ford and that fat 427 he squeezed in ? Broadley designed the basic GT40, why hasn't Shelby griped about his GT40 "creation" ? and demanded a pound of flesh from every clone maker of GT40s. Simple answer, MONEY. Shelby never made enough, in his mind, over his successes. So what ! Let it rest and let us, the common folk, enjoy our dreams of owning, Cobra, GT40, Lola T70, Porsche 917, whatever, at affordable prices, IE, KITS! that we can build. I can't afford to fork out million(s) for an original, who can, save for Jim and his P4 I'd still shake Shelbys hand and say it's a pleasure to meet you, but I'd check my wallet after I did it.

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

I'm sorry, I won't deny his accomplishments- many of which were in the marketing end, more than design, etc- but I think he's greedy. There are historical folks in the racing world I'd like to meet- Brian Redman, Ickx, Moss, Danica Patrick , but not Shelby. Couldn't care less.

The latest OCTANE colum was slightly better- somewhat more history and somewhat less shameless self-promotion, but still a hearty share. Of course he's going to talk about his life in motor racing and car construction, but it would be nice if he mentioned some of the other geniuses that worked for him, who got far less recognition- Phil Remington, Carroll Smith, just for a few.

 

Having been somewhat closely involved in the Cobra (Shelby) scene of late, I find it very interesting to read the comments in this forum! Nothing there I'd disagree with too strongly - in fact MkIV summed it up rather well. I do recall an interview circa late '70s where CS stated he was really glad to see the back of the Cobra since he never did like it all that much, with its nasty buggy springs...! My, how times change$$$. I was at the Haynes Cobra Day where CS stood up and actually paid credit to the replica builders - some of whom were in the audience - but now suddenly those same fine cars give him hives. Whatever.
I also noted the reference to the Heart Fund. Lets not go there, but if anyone cares to dig deep, the info from the 2004 accounts are in the public domain if you know where to look. I admit I'm no expert but I was shocked. I will not betray a confidence and post them, but it makes for difficult reading! (And I won't say who sent them to me as you might not believe me...)

 

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

Trevor,

You nasty boy,...............

Rick

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

Trevor...say it ain't so!!! Don't disappoint us!!! Broken hearts over the Heart Fund??? Uh oh.....