Democrats what is wrong with you?

[Jim Craik]

We all hope that folks can take care of themselves, but it is not always possible. Humans have long developed families, villages and society as a backstop when the need arises

Posted By Me

Humans started with families, we feed the young, teach them to hunt and gather, take care of the sick, injured and old folks. later we developed villages, this was more efficient, the young were helped by all, the hunter/gatherers worked together and the village took care of the sick and old folks.

Later this developed into Cities, Counties, States and Countries, mostly for mutual protection. This model has worked very well for thousands of years! Humanity has thrived!

Now Domtoni, Veek, RonR, Al and the other concevatives dont like this model. They say, why should I teach the young, why should I help the sick, why should I take care of the old......................

Evolutuion in reverse, you must be very proud!

But you can be certain that if these folks ever run into trouble, loose their jobs, need long term medical aid, grow old and helpless, need unemployment insurance or student loans, these folks will go running to the Town, City, State for WHAT THEY ARE OWED!!!!!

But by God, they will limit that help to themselves! None for those other lazy folks!

 

[Ian Anderson]

Dom

I believe it comes down to
"What do you want the Government to do?"

Me
I believe they are responsible for
Security of their own shores (Army airforce, navy)
Internal security (Police)
Road infrastructure
Education to A Level in school
Medical provision (Hospitals)
Refuse collection and disposal
(And the above is only available to UK Citizens)
that's it no more

Now after how many years of Governance and pandering we have

Security of their own shores (Army airforce, navy)
Oh but we'll also be in Iraq, Afganistan, Eastern Europe etc.
Internal security (Police)
Well there is a police force of sortts with no teeth who are not interested in things like burglary.
Road infrastructure
I was out in the GT40 last weekend and the Rhodesian dirt roads with corregations would have been smoother and less potholed
Education to A Level in school
Well no after GCSE you have to leave and go to "College" - another name for jobs for the boys! more administrators etc.
Medical provision (Hospitals)
But we have anything you need if you can describe it as a "medical need" you're covered including live in 24 hour nurse aids. Replacement for your drugs that formed a habit
Refuse collection but only of you separate everything for us into 7 different bins
Housing for the "not so needy" that will never leave it as it's an easy opption
Hand outs for having a child, the second, third, bigger house , live in nanny so long as you say the "boyfriend" has left you in the lurch the Government will pay (Sorry how did the 2nd and 3rd child happen if there is no Boyfriend? but we pay for a single mother and her "non existant" boyfriend to live in a very nice furnished home at our expense
Legal aid to help anyone batter the government into submission to hand out more money
Sick pay that is more beneficial than getting a job
Pensions for all these people who have never contributed or paid tax
Pensions for government staff who never cintributed to a scheme but expect a pay out based on final salary - greatly inflated bu Gordon Brown
Welcome mat for every stray from whatever country - oh even if you want to come here and blow us up!
We'll pay for the Euro gravy train that does nothing but undernine our laws when it should be for an economic trading zone only.
And
And
And

Sorry I cannot see why the country is broke and digging a deeper hole (Outgoings are more than incoming) when you consider the 2 lists of what a government should do and what it is doing.

Far too liberal and any cut will see people bellyaching
Call it quits get the government back to doing the basics only.
Watch the immigrants all leave as they cannot sponge any more
Get the single mothers working (hand up not hand out) and let them return to parents home - there's an incentive!

I could go on but I'm sure a lot on this board will think that's too "right wing"

Ian

 

[Nick]

Quote, Nick

What ever happened to waiting? There's no reason a 14 or 15 year old girl should spread her legs and allow this. Where are the parents? Parents, thats the problem in a nutshell! No parents to guide.

Tom,

No argument against that, but it still takes two to Tango, t's up to 14 or 15 year old guys to keep it in their pants as well.

 

[Damian]

O.K. I have had a lot of fun watching you guys go to town on this and I only have ONE comment or should I say a challenge or calling out of sorts to one member that obviously was on some sort of mind altering drug when he posted this "Veek, Damian, RonRand even Al, stop posting these lies. Try telling the truth, try un-biased sources for your info, you will lose much of your anger and hate!". Now Jim i know that you like to play as if you are not full of it but I have to take a proverbial sledge hammer to you because if there is one thing that gets me going is when someone calls my integrity /honor into question. Name me ONE SINGLE TIME I have EVER posted anything that was false or a lie. Again name just one time that I did what you claim. Ohh wait you can't. I have NEVER POSTED ANYTHING THAT COULDN'T BE VERIFIED BY MULTIPLE SOURCES or that could be viewed as anything but FACT. Now the facts might not jive with your views but that does not make them lies just facts that prove you wrong. So in short post up ONE SINGLE POST of mine that was a LIE or not backed in fact than I will openly apologies but if not (as is again the reality you choose not to face) than I would expect the same or how about you just keep my name out of your mouth or stop from ever using my name in anything more than words of you admiration for me. So in short PUT up (or in this case post up) OR SHUT UP!!!!!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

 

[domtoni]

Well said Ian. You sound like a bunch of us !!

 

[Jim Craik]

Damian,

You are absolutly correct, I am sorry!!!

I should never have lumped you into that group, there is no excuse!

You have always been a straight shooter, way too concirvative for my liking but a straight shooter none the less.

In the Future when I am angry and wrighting fast replies to missleading posts I will take the time to proof read my posts. I have to remember that Damian and Domtoni are two different folk.

Once again, I'm sorry!

 

[Ian K]

As we have talked about Wisconsin, here is a CNN article that looks at San Diego. What is the city doing about it?

The trouble with public pensions? Ask San Diego - CNN.com

Ugh - Ruben Navrette. I've been reading his crap for years.

Unfortunately, Ruben is leaving out some big pieces of the puzzle, and one of the biggest reasons the San Diego pension system is in such a mess - that the city borrowed money from the pension program to pay for other things, including projects in support of hosting the Republican National Convention in 1996, the expanion of the San Diego Convention Center, and financing for PetCo Ballpark. Many of these loans were never repaid (RNC related ones included).

Also, much of the pension portfolio was shifted to investments in the stock market. The crash of 2000/2001 caused the fund to lose significant value, which was supposed to trigger requirements for emergency funding. In 2002, the pension board changed those requirements. And, the financial crisis of 2008 caused the pension fund to lose more than $1 billion.

Ian

 

[domtoni]

Ian, thanks for the comments. Amazing that CNN didn't pick look at those issues.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Hypothetical question, because it is not going to happen.
If a government came out and said that in twelve months time welfare will stop for any unwed mothers who give birth after that date.
What do you think would happen to the birth rate of illegitimate children?

If they came out and said if you are able bodied and capable of working, you have to work for your welfare cheque. What do you think would happen?

 

[Ian K]

Hypothetical question, because it is not going to happen.
If a government came out and said that in twelve months time welfare will stop for any unwed mothers who give birth after that date.
What do you think would happen to the birth rate of illegitimate children?

If they came out and said if you are able bodied and capable of working, you have to work for your welfare cheque. What do you think would happen?

Sadly, in the US, not a damn thing will change - the birth rates will not drop, and you would see all sorts of protests and lawsuits, and the ACLU and other Civil Rights groups come out in force saying how such laws/actions are discriminatory.

Ian

 

[domtoni]

Pete, that was already discussed elsewhere (perhaps even on BBC). The Netherlands was used as an example. Women who get pregnant don't get any state money until they are 18. After 18, don't remember how much they get if anything.

Parents are responsible up to 18. Abortion is pretty restricted and accounts for 2 per 1000 which is normal for other EU countries.

Re working. Yea right, we don't want people on welfare to work !! Just take a trip to the job centre and see. Plenty of good people who can work don't.

The welfare state is good as a fall back, but no good for the long term health of the nation.

 

[Ian K]

However, Public employees work for the people and not the other way around. If the public workers don't like the working conditions or pay then get a job in the private sector. That is the ultimate freedom.
Garry

Sorry Garry, but public employees work for the government that hired them. The only public employees who work "for the people" are the ones who are voted in and out of office. The rest work for a large company called the government. The government has the power to hire, fire, reward and discipline its employees, not the "people".

Imagine what chaos would ensue if every public employee was fired after every election, and then every position had to be filled again.

Ian

 

[Jim Craik]

Guys,

BIG GOVERNMENT...........boy that sounds scary!

All our problems come from big Government and runaway government spending. Do they?

Did you know that less than 1% of the US population works for the Federal Government. That includes the Military, FBI, postal workers.........

If you add State County and local government, from the President to the local dog catcher it totals only 4% of the population!

Just as a comparison in Greece it is 33%!

 

[Ian Anderson]

Guys,

BIG GOVERNMENT...........boy that sounds scary!

All our problems come from big Government and runaway government spending. Do they?

Did you know that less than 1% of the US population works for the Federal Government. That includes the Military, FBI, postal workers.........

If you add State County and local government, from the President to the local dog catcher it totals only 4% of the population!

Just as a comparison in Greece it is 33%!

And how many actually work?

About 50%?

Ian

 

[Jim Craik]

Here is some great info, I have not seen anyone else post this, so I will.

Did you know that GM posted a profit last year.

Just 60 months ago GM was in very bad shape. After 8 years of Republican rule, our economy was in ruins, the auto industry near collapse!

The conservatives here on our forum said do not help them, do not give them loans, LET THEM FAIL!

Typical selfish conservatives, don't help those that are down, it's not my problem........

Well President Obama understands that this was a temporary problem, and even though he took much heat/hate from republicans, conservatives and Fox, he did the did the right thing.

You selfish conservatives said this was communism, the "nationalizing of business", you called him a communist, and a fascist.

This was none of those things, this was helping Americans in time of need.

For the first time since 2004 GM posted a profit.

GM made a $4.7 Billion profit last year, and we own 27% of that!!!

You selfish conservatives would have let these 80,000 jobs go to Japan, plus another 100,000 linked jobs.

Thank you President Obama!

Can anyone imagine how screwed up America would be under a McCain/Palin administration?

This thread really should be: Republicans what is wrong with you?

 

[Jim Craik]

Here is some more interesting info!

The New York Times recently published an “Op-Chart” by Tommy McCall on its Opinion page showing what your returns would have been had you started with $10,000 in 1929 and invested it in the stock market, but only during the administrations of either Democratic or Republican presidents. His calculations showed that if you had invested only during Republican administrations you would now have $11,733 while if you had invested only during Democratic administrations you would now have $300,671. Twenty-five times as much!

Republicans, what is wrong with you!

Now obviously 1929 is an odd place to start and this poll obviously has an agenda, but the trends are undeniable.

I know if I had exited the market in 2000 and re-entered in 2008 I would now be looking for a 917.

It really seems that if you worry about big government, government spending and the economy in general, you need to vote Democratic!

 

[Tom P]

Hypothetical question, because it is not going to happen.
If a government came out and said that in twelve months time welfare will stop for any unwed mothers who give birth after that date.
What do you think would happen to the birth rate of illegitimate children?

If they came out and said if you are able bodied and capable of working, you have to work for your welfare cheque. What do you think would happen?

There would be riots!

 

[Tom P]

Here is some more interesting info!

The New York Times recently published an “Op-Chart” by Tommy McCall on its Opinion page showing what your returns would have been had you started with $10,000 in 1929 and invested it in the stock market, but only during the administrations of either Democratic or Republican presidents. His calculations showed that if you had invested only during Republican administrations you would now have $11,733 while if you had invested only during Democratic administrations you would now have $300,671. Twenty-five times as much!

Republicans, what is wrong with you!

Now obviously 1929 is an odd place to start and this poll obviously has an agenda, but the trends are undeniable.

I know if I had exited the market in 2000 and re-entered in 2008 I would now be looking for a 917.

It really seems that if you worry about big government, government spending and the economy in general, you need to vote Democratic!

Pretty crappy return on $10K for 71 years either way. Do you think the depression may have had something to do with this? Bad comparison.

 

[Jim Craik]

Tom,

Like I said, this is a very problematic poll. 1929!, this guy has an agenda!

But just like growth of government, the growth of the debt and the growth of The economy, If you look at the numbers, and I do look at the numbers.

You have to think, Republicans, what Is wrong with you?

 

[Doug S.]

If they came out and said if you are able bodied and capable of working, you have to work for your welfare cheque. What do you think would happen?

Am I the only one who remembers Bill/Hillary Clinton and their answer to welfare.....WORKfare?

The intent and purpose was to give needy individuals financial assistance, but to require them to prove that they provided part of the cost of supporting themselves and their families.....in essence, they had to prove that they were working (if capable). There was additional moneys available for education, ostensibly in order to get the "needy" training that would help them remove themselves from the welfare ranks for good.

IIRC, there was a 4 year limit to benefits under "WORKfare".

Was this just a dream I had? Does anyone else remember it?

Cheers from Doug!!