Donor vehicle registration

[Scott Davis]

I'm curious what most of you do when you purchase a donor vehicle that will primarily be used for parts. BTW I'm in California so this may be different by state. Do you register as non-operating, salvage it (or scrap), or just normal registration? If its not running how do you get around the required smog (assuming you must register)?

Mostly curious as it relates to the eclipse that will be used in the APEX. I believe when you file SB100 and you go to the CHP you are issued an entirely new VIN number for the kit car so I don't know why you would register the old car. I may be buying something and want to make sure I follow the correct process to avoid fines or penalites but also want to reduce DMV fees as well.

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

As its been explained to me ref: Apex , using the majority of the cockpit, interior and safety cell structure of the Eclipse then the OEM VIN can be maintained.

I don't know if this pertains to other cars using donors though...

 

[Roger]

Mostly curious as it relates to the eclipse that will be used in the APEX. I believe when you file SB100 and you go to the CHP you are issued an entirely new VIN number for the kit car so I don't know why you would register the old car. I may be buying something and want to make sure I follow the correct process to avoid fines or penalites but also want to reduce DMV fees as well.

I've not looked into what the correct way to handle the Apex / Eclipse is in California. That said, I'd be looking to use SB100 if at all possible, as you then (as I understand it) won't have any smog testing and can do what you like with the engine.

 

[Scott Davis]

I've not looked into what the correct way to handle the Apex / Eclipse is in California. That said, I'd be looking to use SB100 if at all possible, as you then (as I understand it) won't have any smog testing and can do what you like with the engine.

Yes I'd absolutely be wanting to use SB100. I'm not sure there's a benefit one way or the other of using the existing eclipse VIN or getting assigned a new VIN in the SB100 process (maybe an extra CHP trip?).

Still I think this question is independent of the SB100 process since it seems you should be able to buy a car for parts and not register it at the time of purchase and not necessarily have to pay fees/taxes. You WILL have to pay on the value put into the car when you register the kit and this would be double taxation no?

 

[Roger]

I see. They seem to care most about you being able to prove that the parts aren't stolen, so I would expect that having the title (non-op) in your name would be enough. You must need to record it as scrapped later though. It's worth asking the DMV though, as I suspect that there might be some regulations on who can "junk" a vehicle.

Digging a bit, I found this:

If you buy car parts or the whole car to use for your custom ride, keep all of the paperwork involved with the vehicle. You'll need to show it when you register your custom car.

 

[Scott Davis]

I see. They seem to care most about you being able to prove that the parts aren't stolen, so I would expect that having the title (non-op) in your name would be enough. You must need to record it as scrapped later though. It's worth asking the DMV though, as I suspect that there might be some regulations on who can "junk" a vehicle.

Digging a bit, I found this:

Thanks for info...I called the DMV and the guy I talked to said you would "retire" the car at a DMV location (instead of registering it). I think this basically gives the vehicle a salvage title and is non-operable. He believed the safety cell would then get a new Vin and as you said, you will have to show support/receipts for the purchase. Also he said you cannot do SB100 with an existing VIN it will need to be a new VIN but there are no additional steps related to this.

Update: Because I had other questions however I called the BAR, and they said don't do anything after you purchase the donors, just bring in title's when you do the SB100 registration. This makes the most sense and they confirmed there would be no missing fees/taxes from not registering the donors.

 

[Jack]

The presumed advantages (as I see it) of using a running, registered and titled Eclipse as a donor are:

1. It would remain on the current registration and the title will remain as "Eclipse".
2. Insurance rates may be quite a bit less for the titled Eclipse.
3. You won't have to jump through hoops with your DMV, or in CA, the SB100.

 

[Scott Davis]

The presumed advantages (as I see it) of using a running, registered and titled Eclipse as a donor are:

1. It would remain on the current registration and the title will remain as "Eclipse".
2. Insurance rates may be quite a bit less for the titled Eclipse.
3. You won't have to jump through hoops with your DMV, or in CA, the SB100.

Good points! Now the question is it worth it to get the motor running and able to pass smog in order to register...we'll see. Thanks for the input!!

 

[Roger]

The presumed advantages (as I see it) of using a running, registered and titled Eclipse as a donor are:

1. It would remain on the current registration and the title will remain as "Eclipse".
2. Insurance rates may be quite a bit less for the titled Eclipse.
3. You won't have to jump through hoops with your DMV, or in CA, the SB100.

I do not believe that it would be legal, in California, to do that. The DMV say:

Registration Requirements for Home Made Specially Constructed or Kit Vehicles

<!-- English content start in DMV Template SingleField --> A "home-made, specially constructed, or kit vehicle" is a vehicle that is built for private use, not for resale, and is not constructed by a licensed manufacturer or remanufacturer. These vehicles may be built from a kit, new or used parts, a combination of new and used parts, or a vehicle reported for dismantling (junked) that, when reconstructed, does not resemble the original make of the vehicle that was dismantled.

A specially constructed vehicle (SPCNS) does not include a vehicle that has been repaired or restored to its original design by replacing parts or a vehicle modified from its original design.

Example: A Volkswagen "Beetle" with modified fenders, engine compartment lid, and front end, but still recognizable as a Volkswagen is not considered a specially constructed vehicle.

Even if it were legal (again, in California), you'd then tied to all the restrictions that the donor car had, including *all* its smog equipment, e.g. original intake. You will not be able to make any engine modifications (unless BAR-approved ones exist for the Eclipse) and will have to pass smog every two years.

If you go the SB100 route, you can do whatever you like and never have to pass smog tests.

 

[Jack]

Got it Roger, most states are not that stringent.

 

[Roger]

Got it Roger, most states are not that stringent.

On the plus-side, SB100 does offer a very nice smog exemption for non-replicas (replicas get the year of they copy or the year of the engine for smog rules), if you get one of the 500 per year. Non-component cars are severely limited though, otherwise my 928 would have twin turbos.

 

[Tom]

We talked about this in the Apex thread awhile back. I determined it made the most sense to register it as an SL Apex under SB100 and be totally exempt from changing things (displacement, cats, turbos, exhaust - all could/should be a fail for smog if you don't go SB100).

If you go the SB100 route, then you are free to put whatever you like into your car since it is registered as an SL Apex and doesn't resemble anything else made.

For the donor, I had planned to get one that was fully functional and drive it while I accumulated parts and started the process. At some point between when it got torn down and the Apex was done, the DSM would have to get a scrap title or something (I hadn't looked that far ahead.) That was before things changed to V-Dub power. If I were considering it today, I might go the route of getting a DSM that's already a salvage title (cheap!).

 

[Scott Davis]

Agree with the above comments regarding the title/SB100...however I do believe its not a bad idea to register it first and get the insurance going as an eclipse rather then a kit car....I'm not sure how they determine the premiums for kits, but I doubt its less then an 1996 eclipse.

This also may be another reason to get the non-turbo variety as a donor. Quickly building insurance quotes online the non-turbo eclipse was about 25% cheaper. The same car eagle vs Mits, the eagle was like 10% cheaper.

Not sure how long that would last as I believe the insurance Co's regularly get DMV records. Not sure if this is only for driver records or also for the VIN/registered car records. They could see that VIN is no longer registered once SB100 is complete.

 

[Roger]

Agree with the above comments regarding the title/SB100...however I do believe its not a bad idea to register it first and get the insurance going as an eclipse rather then a kit car....I'm not sure how they determine the premiums for kits, but I doubt its less then an 1996 eclipse.

If you go the SB100 route, then it will have a new VIN and will no longer be registered as an Eclipse once it is ready to drive on the road. I can't imagine that an insurance company wouldn't notice if you have to claim - there's little point in having insurance if it's invalid.

 

[Dan Austin]

I recently finished an SB100 special construction registration based on a donor chassis. You will want to file a resurrect-able salvage claim. This allows the CHP to re-use the chassis VIN, which you cannot legally remove. Some CHP locations will issue new vin plates and tell you to remove the existing, but others, like the San Jose office will not. I started with a no-op title, as I too had heard that was enough, butit cost me months and 10 trips to the DMV.

The salvage title process can take a bit, so I would not recommend filing for the salvage title the same day as the SB100 registration.

Also without the SB100 process you could attempt to perform a legal engine swap, but you would need to use all emissions control equipment from the engine's donor chassis, including fuel tank. Moving the engine to the rear is OK, but the transmission must have been an original option in the donor, and items like the cats and O2 sensors need to be within a couple inches of their factory location relative to the engine.

Since the Apex does not look like anything ever built as a production car you ask for classification by body style and when Sacramento agrees it does not look like any other production car you get a 1960 model year for emissions classification and only a PCV is required to be legal. You are free to then install any emissions gear you want for the car to run right, but that is the criteria, 'to run right' not to meet some abstract visual standard.

One final note on the SB100 process. It used to be abused by a couple big name
builders that were not 'constructing' but doing resto-mod. They would burn through
all 500 applications in the first few hours of business every January. Once the state
cracked down and required the process be completed soon after applying to register,
the 500 spots lasted much longer. I applied in the 3rd week of December last year
and there were plenty of slots still available.

 

[Tom]

Also without the SB100 process you could attempt to perform a legal engine swap, but you would need to use all emissions control equipment from the engine's donor chassis, including fuel tank. Moving the engine to the rear is OK, but the transmission must have been an original option in the donor, and items like the cats and O2 sensors need to be within a couple inches of their factory location relative to the engine.

Since the Apex does not look like anything ever built as a production car you ask for classification by body style and when Sacramento agrees it does not look like any other production car you get a 1960 model year for emissions classification and only a PCV is required to be legal. You are free to then install any emissions gear you want for the car to run right, but that is the criteria, 'to run right' not to meet some abstract visual standard.

This part is why I'd go SB100 for sure. While I'd probably have put some sort of cats on it, they'd likely be less restrictive and I'd also want to mess with things like turbos and other fun stuff. It's nice to be free to do so.

 

[Scott Davis]

You will want to file a resurrect-able salvage claim. This allows the CHP to re-use the chassis VIN, which you cannot legally remove. Some CHP locations will issue new vin plates and tell you to remove the existing, but others, like the San Jose office will not. I started with a no-op title, as I too had heard that was enough, butit cost me months and 10 trips to the DMV.

The salvage title process can take a bit, so I would not recommend filing for the salvage title the same day as the SB100 registration.

Okay so in your opinion you would buy the donor, file a resurrect-able salvage claim soon after purchase, once the car is nearing completion start the SB100 process or earlier?

Really surprising that a non-operating title (which I would think you could switch to a normal operating title at anytime-if I'm understanding that term correctly) would make it more difficult then a salvage title (which seems like you would have to jump through a bunch of hoops to get title back). Good to know. Thanks for the info!!

 

[Doug S.]

Way back when component cars were just beginning to be offered, most of them used a VW pan as a platform. Those cars did not need to be retitled, they were just viewed by most states as a VW with a custom body on them...which they were, they just looked like dune buggies or Ferrari Dino 246s or MGTDs or...well, you get the idea. If the mechanicals were VW, and they were, the vehicle was still a VW.

Things are SO different now that companies are selling proprietary frames, that sort of stuff. As i understand it, only the safety pod would be used from the Eclipse...at that point it would be difficult to sell as a Mitsubishi and hard to insure as one, too, since the body and mechanical configuration would most assuredly not be Mitsubishi. Think about how many "Custom Cars", like the Batmobile, were made on standard production car chassis...sure, they no longer looked like the 1958 Whatevermobile from which they were made, but without the "custom body" the chasis sure would have resembled that 1958 car's.

So...there is a lot to be said for the SB100 option...probably requires a specialty insurance company to get insurance, but doable and once done sounds like the easiest way to be able to enjoy modifying the vehicle for better performance, and don't we all like to do that?

Cheers!

Doug

 

[Dan Austin]

Okay so in your opinion you would buy the donor, file a resurrect-able salvage claim soon after purchase, once the car is nearing completion start the SB100 process or earlier?

Exactly. Part of the SPCNS program is to issue a new title. The SB100
provision in the SPCNS program allows the model year to be set such
that minimal emissions equipment is required and no bi-annual inspection.

You don't have to go down the SPCNS/SB100 route if you have a
titled donor chassis, but clearing the bi-annual inspection or getting
BAR to approve your engine swap/install will be tough(not impossible).
Further if a curious CHP officer pulls you over and your registration
says 'Mitsubishi Eclipse', you may spend more time on the side of the
road explaining it is not a fraudulent registration.

As explained to me the CA DMV can update the make and model on a
title only by 'junking' it then resurrecting it. if they could have updated a
non-op title I would have cut my six month registration process in less than half.