EFI Fuel Pumps - Choice ?

[JimmyMac]

Cheers Dave,

I sussed that part# from your excellent diagram but just making sure.

I am still a bit wary on the polymer nozzles on the Pollak valve and I guess I'm used to the ten pounder theory.
However the assembly is obviously plastic to eliminate an arc.

See the Greasel Company below.
The FSV1 model has a metal actuator casing but still the plastic business end.
I will probably get one and see if I can machine the Christmas tree as a block of tuffnol with ali unions inserted.

A forty buck right-off maybe, but then a nice wee project.


http://www.greasel.com/Individual-Components.html

 

[JimmyMac]

All,
This came up just a minute ago.
A 2-way operated valve with metal nozzles.
Hmm ?

I think we might have something.


http://www.veggiepower.org.uk/svo.htm

 

[Ian Anderson]

The best price I found for the 6 wall Pollack Valve was JC Whitney
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Searc...&searchbtn.y=12

$53.99

Ian

 

[JimmyMac]

Ian,
I think I will be going with the metal version and sorting out the swirl pot overflow another way if the valve is intrinsically safe..
It's a whole lot smaller than the Pollak which suits me because I don't have a lot of room as I have MkII coolers on my side pontoons.
It is my impression that there might be a lot of heavy hoses vibrating around that Pollak manifold.


Have you seen this one before ?
http://www.sidewalksurfer.com/flowsystem/boat-3_6portfuelvalve.htm

Expensive and too big for my liking.

 

[Sandy]

I have seen a similar one, and it is I think about $400USD. They look about as good as you might need, but very price. The other valve looks like a 3 way solenoid which is what I was looking at earlier. I like the marine version better but the price is a bit hard to swallow.

Sandy

 

[Sandy]

Here is the one I saw, but was a bit on the LARGE side of things...

http://www.cpperformance.com/detail.aspx?ID=2666

Main Imco site
http://www.imcomarine.com/pages/tanks.html


Sandy

 

[Sandy]

Another option, but not much less expensive then the marine valves are these from Andair. -8 AN and -6 return. These are mechanical and look very nice. You can use one low pressure pump feeding the swirl pot and then pot to EFI. Returns from efi regs to valve, intake of low press pump to valve etc.

http://www.andair.co.uk/system/index.html

Pic -

Might look good next to driver seat, but not sure if could be placed where easily actuated. And overall flow???

Sandy

 

[JimmyMac]

Sandy,
The CPPerformance kit looks like the same internals as the one I posted but in a different box.
I am now looking at installing two High Pressure Walbro internal fuel tank pumps and using the little 2-way valve as a switch-over operated from a Lucas switch on my dash as original.

I had also considered the Andair valve (pretty common on Google Images) and retrofitting the original GT40 manual lever to the front of the Andair valve in the cockpit.
This would also have a longer spindle to get through my firewall as I don't fancy the fuel lines local to the cockpit internals.

These internal tank pumps save on major plumbing, swirl pots and all those joints and reduces the risk of leaks.
It also gives me all of the room for my coolers on the pontoons.

Somebody told me today that they are used in Formula racing ?

 

[Sandy]

The IMCO one says brass valve vs 'All' billet for the other, and the IMCO looks much larger with fuel gauge switch over as well. Not sure much more then that. The Billet one is very nice, but priced pretty steep.

If I go the manual valve I was thinking of puting the valve on (thru) the bulkhead so all the lines are kept in the engine bay, so not a problem in that area, just need to be able to get at it while driving. It does have a high cool factor and eliminates one fuel pump (In my scheme anyways)...

Sandy

 

[JimmyMac]

Sandy,

The manual valve is cool...

I notice that we have had no response from the many makers out there.
Don't you think that somebody who has a turnkey would like to chip in with some advice ?

It makes one wonder.

 

[Sandy]

James -

No doubt it (standard builds) will use the pollak valve /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The mechanical valve is looking better and better to me, for as mentioned I can just have one of each pump and no need for any check valves which save some $$ (Pounds/Euros) to justify spending on the nice aircraft part, then simpler wiring, just 'pump on/off' (well only a little less work). I think fitment will determine if I'll use it! Also for a few bucks more they can custom engrave the backing plate with custom slang if desired /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The in tank pumps would have the same problems if the tanks didn't have a nice large sump, they will suck air as an external so if your sump in the tank is good, should not matter internal or external. The internal just simplify plumbing and save space for sure, but fuel flow may be a problem for crazy hp engines. Don't know much about the walbros'.

Do you have photos/source for the GT40 orig valve handle/bucket?

Sandy

 

[Ian Anderson]

James

Great idea about in tank pumps but the return will also need something like this
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Jaguar-XJ12-fuel-s...1QQcmdZViewItem

They could also be run from the Lucas swithc but probabkly need a relay for the current

Ian

 

[Paul Thompson 'Hooligan']

Hi Jim

There are many good in-tank pumps available - but for higher HP motors, an external is preferable in my opinion and with a single swirl pot, fed from either side tank, that way you only need one HP pump. (for in tank you'd require two no ?)

In tank is easier to achieve at build stage, so tank can be modified with suitable baffling to incorporate an internal swirl pot arrangement. Without it, the in tank pump is likely to be starved of fuel during long braking or downhill sections if the tank is not near full - this instantly causes drop of engine power (feels like you are on the brakes!!) and could easliy lead to a lean condition or engine damage if you don't lift. I'm sure a suitably prepared tank, with in tank pump, will work fine if all aspects are considered beforehand.

Ian - received your mail - will contact you later this week. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[JimmyMac]

Ian,
Thanks for the solenoid lead. I think that the two way one which I posted earlier might be better so I will check out with the vendor tomorrow. It looks remarkably similar - only two way.

Paul,
I have already discussed this with the tank maker and he is fitting additional baffles and a surge section into both tanks for me. The pumps will also have dip pipes fitted with filters before they are installed.
Two pumps also give me contingency for failure.

Sandy,
Check out our Bill from Snellville GA's post on March 06 2005 of an orignal car for the cockpit switch details. The best shots of an original car I have seen in a long while.
One of these switches was also posted for sale on this forum a while back at £250 so a pretty rare beast. It looks a bit antiquated and is essentially only a 2-way valve on the back so the one you are considering is most definitely a higher specification in my opinion.

I have to say that this is a great thread so far.
Thanks guys !

 

[Chris Duncan]

If your going to put your high pressure pumps in tank you need to fence them off with one way doors. In essence a swirl pot in each tank with the pump inside. Otherwise they will pick up air.

This is the way I went, it saves a lot of room and clutter in the engine compartment but it is harder to work on.

I used one Kinsler 3-way valve for the return control, about $150 but it's all metal construction. You could substitute 2 of these for one 6-way.

One high pressure pump in each tank, inside a chamber with a one way door from the rest of the tank. Both pumps connected to a T with one way valves. Single line to final fuel filter which T's off to each fuel rail. Return from each fuel rail goes into the 2 inlets on the pressure reg. One line from the pressure reg to the 3-way valve with a return line going to each tank from there.

Electric switch on dash controls 3 functions at once. Fuel pump left or right. Fuel level sender left or right. (only one fuel level gauge). 3-way valve return line left or right.

 

[JimmyMac]

Spot on that man !!
Kinsler valves it is and I have the catalogue.
Good news for me as the people there were super helpfull when I bought my fuel rails and other bits.

I had already sorted out the tank non-return door theory like the Aviaid oil pan.

Cheers Kalun.

 

[Chris Duncan]

""Kinsler valves it is and I have the catalogue. Good news for me as the people there were super helpful when I bought my fuel rails and other bits.""

Earl Miller is da man. We talked for about 1/2 hour one time, and I've emailed him diagrams for suggestions and approval.

The 3-way is not in the catalog (and no part number on receipt) and I was off on the price, this 3-way diverter valve (solenoid controlled that decides which tank to return to) was $192.00.

The Tee (PN 8102, $150) before the final fuel filter is spendy also because of the one way valves it has, . Actually the Walbro in tank pumps (PN: 10271, $105) have one way valves on their outlets so the one way valves on the Tee are redundant. It would be a real mess on my setup if one of the tanks overfilled and ran into the side compartment, that was the reason for the backup.

The system needed a Tee at that spot and incorporating the one way valves made for less fittings/joints.

Money was saved on the fuel filters. The Walbros come with intake sock filters and the final filter is a generic disposable one with top level performance for only $22.

""I had already sorted out the tank non-return door theory like the Aviaid oil pan.""

totally, just like oil pan trap doors, and make sure to leave a place where the fuel can get back over the top.

 

[Sandy]

Jimmy/Kalun

Do you have a shot of the 3 Way valve? I spoke with them a month or so ago about the 'Tee' check valve but the fellow never mentioned the 3 way solenoid when I was chatting on what I was going to do with 2 fuel tanks and efi. I was looking at some of the ASCO 3 way 12v valves but figured a better way must exist.

I'm still edging towards the Andair mechanical valve, but having it automatic with a toggle switch on the dash is nice.

Sandy

 

[Ian Anderson]

Very interesting but from a previous thread it was noted by Dave Harris that a solenoid valve tends to be permanently connected to the power supply to make it work and hence is a source of heat. Not considered a good thing around fuel. (But Jaguar seemed to manage with solenoids without problems so perhaps this was a red herring!)
See Dave Harris' comment on this thread
http://www.gt40s.com/ubbthreads/showflat...=true#Post61058


The reason I went for the Pollack valve is that the electricitu only connects for a few seconds when the mechanism moves and then stops until the valve is activated to move in the other direction.

Ian

 

[JimmyMac]

Ian,
I am not qualified to give an opinion on electrical engineering.
Solenoid actuated valves are used in more dangerous fluid processes than hydrocarbons as well as the refining of fuels.
I will however depend upon my own risk assessment of the parts required for the two systems discussed in this thread and personally I am going for the solenoid/in-tank scheme.
Avoidance of fire is the same reason I decided upon using a fuel injection manifold instead of the Weber set-up.
These are purely my personal theories and you should build as you see fit for purpose.
Perhaps someone could enlighten us upon the relative merits and pitfalls of both of these actuation systems.