actually I would re write that as: Being an unarmed society in an armed world should be feared"
Guns.
- Thread starter Pete
- Start date
A complex issue made all the more difficult by some awkward realities. Case in point:
I was raised around guns, having grown up in a small rural town. All the men in my family were avid hunters. I was never uncomfortable with the idea of people having guns. After college I moved to the "big city" (Chicago) with my wife and new baby. One afternoon we were barbequing in the back yard of our neighbor across the alley. We were discussing neighborhood crime when my neighbor proudly recounted the night he ran a burglar out of his house with a gunshot. He showed me the bullet hole in his garage to prove it. I thought, "Well I guess you showed him!". Then I looked at the trajectory from the place he said he fired from to the bullet hole on the corner of his garage and realized that had his aim been off six inches to the right the bullet would have missed the garage and travelled across the alley and into my second floor apartment. We moved not long after that and my feeling toward guns have been tempered a bit.
I was raised around guns, having grown up in a small rural town. All the men in my family were avid hunters. I was never uncomfortable with the idea of people having guns. After college I moved to the "big city" (Chicago) with my wife and new baby. One afternoon we were barbequing in the back yard of our neighbor across the alley. We were discussing neighborhood crime when my neighbor proudly recounted the night he ran a burglar out of his house with a gunshot. He showed me the bullet hole in his garage to prove it. I thought, "Well I guess you showed him!". Then I looked at the trajectory from the place he said he fired from to the bullet hole on the corner of his garage and realized that had his aim been off six inches to the right the bullet would have missed the garage and travelled across the alley and into my second floor apartment. We moved not long after that and my feeling toward guns have been tempered a bit.
he needs better gun control
Brian Hamilton
I'm on the verge of touching myself inappropriatel
Actually Randy, that was Nick at your house. But I understand what you're saying (and wish I was there to check out your beautiful car and meet you). Personally I like guns. I respect the rights of other people to either like them or not. As you said, it's a free country. I don't change my feelings about someone as to whether or not they like guns. I'm not that shallow. Haha I respect your opinions Randy, as do I respect those of everyone else. That's honestly what this world needs more of, respect and understanding. But alas, any topic about guns, religion, or politics is only going to end up in an argument. I'll just say that I agree to disagree about gun control. You're, or rather WE'RE never going to completely get rid of guns/weapons. We are human and there's always a part of us that wants to destroy. If we get rid of all guns, we'll go back to swords & bows & arrows. Anyway, this is a topic that will never end in complete agreement, but I respect all viewpoints.
laters,
Brian
laters,
Brian
Howard Jones
Supporter
Not a single person on this planet would be free without em.
He needs a shotgun.
I'm sorry, but if you're relying on Michael Moore to educate you on firearms in the US, there's really no point in trying to convince you how wrong he is and you are, at least not over the internet. But if you ever find yourself in New England I'll be glad to take you shooting and then discuss the issue with you in detail over a cold beer.
regardless of our border status, we have done a piss poor job of controlling it
It's not about fear - it's about being self reliant when it comes to the defense of yourself and your family. If you choose to let others be responsible for your security that's fine, but please don't interfere with my right to do so.
Freedom of opinions and speech isn't an entitlement, it's a right. Fortunately, an equally important right also exists in the US under the second amendment. I don't want to usurp your freedom of speech. Do you want to usurp my right to keep and bear arms?
Criminals will always have guns. I am not a gun fan, but I sure as hell would want to be able to defend my family if the need arose. Self reliance - some of my friends live in semi remote areas around the country and I can say for sure I would not count on (for one second) any police showing up in time to defend me or my loved ones. Especially out there. I would be great to be able to wave a magic wand and eliminate all threats of attack and need for defence, but that just isnt going to happen.
C'mon Howie - the reverse is true as well
Not a single person would be oppressed without 'em either.
I am not in favor of complete illegalization of guns. However, I am in favor of tighter
gun controls, tighter gun sales requirements, and tighter limits on the kind of guns
one can own. Not totally restrictive, but, IMHO, US laws are still a little too loose
and archaic.
Mark Worthington said:
I dunno Mark, based on the news recently, I don't think guns scare any of them these
days.
Ian
Ian, is oppression a state that did not exist before firearms? I think not.
Choose a weapon. It doesn't matter. Literal or figurative. The same applies to both
Howie's and my comments. However, the "free" Howie uses is a specific form of freedom,
one that is gained through weapons. So, my reverse case is entirely accurate within
that parameter as well.
Ian
You say most shooting deaths here in the U.S. are "probably accidental"... I dont know about most deaths, but put it this way criminals like guns because they can force their authority on another individual to make them do as they wish, rob, rape, etc... Criminals probably have a better chance than you do finding a gun by because their criminals and most likely know where to find one, just like drugs or anything else illegal. As far as the U.S having more gun deaths then Australia or the UK I believe it, because if a criminal pulls a gun on me or my family you better believe I'll have pulled mine and I wont wait for him to fire first. - Glock M22 .40 cal :thumbsup:
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
<TABLE class=contentpaneopen><TBODY><TR><TD class=contentheading width="100%">A Hard Look at Our Gun Laws </TD><TD class=buttonheading align=right width="100%">
</TD><TD class=buttonheading align=right width="100%">
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=contentpaneopen><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top colSpan=2>A detailed new report by two Australian Academics has proved that the 1996 Gun Buyback did not reduce firearm crime or suicide by firearm
Possibly the most important development since the 1996 National Firearms Agreement has come in the form of a report in the British Journal of Criminology, by two Australian academics, Dr Jeanine Baker and Samara McPhedran. Dr Baker is Director of Research and Policy for the SSAA, and Samara McPhedran, from the School of Psychology at the University of Sydney, is also director of IWISH – International Women in Shooting and Hunting.
The report is entitled: “Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?” It is very detailed, with statistics, graphs, and examinations of trends.
While both women declare their involvement with shooting in the BJC article, it is important to understand that the article was “peer reviewed”; a process which involves fellow academics checking the article, assessing its statistics, reasoning and findings. Its publication in the British Journal of Criminology establishes its credibility, beyond question, despite the bleating of some of the anti-gun lobby since the report was published, and reported in detail in major newspapers throughout the country.
The report is very lengthy, and there is space, here, only to report its Executive Summary Key Findings, which leave little doubt about the ineffectiveness of the 1996 Firearms Laws:
“ Key Findings:
</TD><TD class=buttonheading align=right width="100%"> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=contentpaneopen><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top colSpan=2>A detailed new report by two Australian Academics has proved that the 1996 Gun Buyback did not reduce firearm crime or suicide by firearm Possibly the most important development since the 1996 National Firearms Agreement has come in the form of a report in the British Journal of Criminology, by two Australian academics, Dr Jeanine Baker and Samara McPhedran. Dr Baker is Director of Research and Policy for the SSAA, and Samara McPhedran, from the School of Psychology at the University of Sydney, is also director of IWISH – International Women in Shooting and Hunting.
The report is entitled: “Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?” It is very detailed, with statistics, graphs, and examinations of trends.
While both women declare their involvement with shooting in the BJC article, it is important to understand that the article was “peer reviewed”; a process which involves fellow academics checking the article, assessing its statistics, reasoning and findings. Its publication in the British Journal of Criminology establishes its credibility, beyond question, despite the bleating of some of the anti-gun lobby since the report was published, and reported in detail in major newspapers throughout the country.
The report is very lengthy, and there is space, here, only to report its Executive Summary Key Findings, which leave little doubt about the ineffectiveness of the 1996 Firearms Laws:
“ Key Findings:
- <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: justify">The reforms did not affect rates of firearm homicide in Australia. <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: justify">The reforms could not be shown to alter rates of firearm suicide, because rates of suicide using other methods also began to decline in the late 1990’s. <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: justify">It is likely that social changes including increased resource allocation for suicide prevention impacted on rates of suicide by all methods, including firearms. <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: justify">It must be concluded that the gun buyback and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia. <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: justify">It cannot be concluded that the reforms altered firearm suicide rates. <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: justify">There is insufficient evidence to support the premise that reducing the stockpile of legally held civilian firearms will result in a reduction in either firearm or overall sudden death rates.
- The lack of effect of a massive buyback and associated legislative changes in the requirements for obtaining a firearm licence or legally possessing a firearm has significant implications for public and justice policy, not only in Australia, but internationally.”
as I said, the genie is out of the bottle and taking my guns away will only hurt me and my family. All totalitarian governments start off by banning guns for the proletariot, this immediatly puts them in the power position and the citizen has little option but to obey or be killed. If you abide by the assumption that people are basically good ,then I am afraid that you are doomed to subserviency. Wait untill there are food shortages, gas shortages, gross unemployment, will you protect yourself with a big stick? My house will likely be left alone in that scenario, there will be easier pickings.
I am always amused at how some people talk big about being able to draw to kill.... Seems that they almost always talk bigger when they have bigger guns... I wonder why that is...
If you only knew how many "trained killers" that were sent to war - and when it came right down to doing the deed many would simply freeze or run... How many of you were in the service - infantry ? How many of you actually had to look into the eyes of your enemy and then end his life ?
The first time - I didn't run, but I did freeze for a moment.. Seemed like an eternity. I'm lucky to have survived that moment. After that it came easier - too easy.. Life seemed like it was suddenly cheap and of little consequence.
I'm sure some of you think that experiences of war have little relevance. I assure you. The criminals on the street both young and old don't know that they aren't in a war.
Your life is as worthless to them as a discarded lottery ticket. Like a seasoned warrior - they will not freeze.
Will I arm myself to position myself to take their lives?
No. I will give them my money or car and hope that's all they want.
I will not perpetuate the madness..
Anybody want an evening of thrills - come to my place this coming Friday night.. We'll only have to drive or walk a couple of miles to where the action is.
Let's just go sit at the bus-stop on Lake Street and Chicago Avenue for a while..
No flak jackets allowed.
Oh we won't be alone. There will be elderly and children as well as young adults there.. It's a very busy neighborhood...
This city has a new nickname. It's called Murderapolis..
Come and enjoy life in the inner city - Let's just sit there and talk big.
I'll vote my conscience on the subject as I always have... I expect that you'll all do the same..
Best wishes to you all... Those of you who are armed - Please be more careful with your weapons. If you're careful now - be even more so...
If you only knew how many "trained killers" that were sent to war - and when it came right down to doing the deed many would simply freeze or run... How many of you were in the service - infantry ? How many of you actually had to look into the eyes of your enemy and then end his life ?
The first time - I didn't run, but I did freeze for a moment.. Seemed like an eternity. I'm lucky to have survived that moment. After that it came easier - too easy.. Life seemed like it was suddenly cheap and of little consequence.
I'm sure some of you think that experiences of war have little relevance. I assure you. The criminals on the street both young and old don't know that they aren't in a war.
Your life is as worthless to them as a discarded lottery ticket. Like a seasoned warrior - they will not freeze.
Will I arm myself to position myself to take their lives?
No. I will give them my money or car and hope that's all they want.
I will not perpetuate the madness..
Anybody want an evening of thrills - come to my place this coming Friday night.. We'll only have to drive or walk a couple of miles to where the action is.
Let's just go sit at the bus-stop on Lake Street and Chicago Avenue for a while..
No flak jackets allowed.
Oh we won't be alone. There will be elderly and children as well as young adults there.. It's a very busy neighborhood...
This city has a new nickname. It's called Murderapolis..
Come and enjoy life in the inner city - Let's just sit there and talk big.
I'll vote my conscience on the subject as I always have... I expect that you'll all do the same..
Best wishes to you all... Those of you who are armed - Please be more careful with your weapons. If you're careful now - be even more so...