I believe there is. The car has a very, very similar shape. But it adds a front splitter that wraps around to in front of the front wheels, flat side skirts, and a rear diffuser. All of these could be fitted to a GT40.
How fast a GT can go?
- Thread starter Patrick965
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I believe there is. The car has a very, very similar shape. But it adds a front splitter that wraps around to in front of the front wheels, flat side skirts, and a rear diffuser. All of these could be fitted to a GT40.
does it makes a lot difference in down force or cw between the 2 nostrils? or how you call that middle section...I mean does it make a difference between the 2 different types for flow? the one with 2 holes or the one with one wide hole?
also on that section there is a little lip on top, maybe you can make it a few mm higher...on this car the 2 side/front flippers look ok, also this car has extra holes in the rear and a spoiler, guess those holes also helps a bit to get pressure/heat out and makes it a bit more stable at high speed.
1968 - 1969 Ford GT40 Mk I Gulf - Images, Specifications and Information
also on that section there is a little lip on top, maybe you can make it a few mm higher...on this car the 2 side/front flippers look ok, also this car has extra holes in the rear and a spoiler, guess those holes also helps a bit to get pressure/heat out and makes it a bit more stable at high speed.
1968 - 1969 Ford GT40 Mk I Gulf - Images, Specifications and Information
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Rene,
I'm sure that the single nostril has slightly more downforce and slightly better cooling.
With the twin nostril, a fare amount if air is not directed up (downforce), but instead goes into the nose/wheel wells.
Also I am fairly sure that incresing the lip above the nostril opening would slightly increase down force at the expence of slightly more drag.
I'm sure that the single nostril has slightly more downforce and slightly better cooling.
With the twin nostril, a fare amount if air is not directed up (downforce), but instead goes into the nose/wheel wells.
Also I am fairly sure that incresing the lip above the nostril opening would slightly increase down force at the expence of slightly more drag.
Ian Anderson
Lifetime Supporter
Jim
Not so in a correctly set up car. (Original)
Some had shallow twin nostrils and when these were fitted a "kick up metal plate" was mounted behind the radiator so that the top of the kick up meets the bottom of the nostril.
And if a deep twin nostril is fitted then the "kick up plate" is not needed as the nostril seals on the bottom of the tub the same aas a single nostril
Can a single nostril evacuate more air than a twin nostril? I would think so but also with a twin nostril the airflow is such that the "hot air" is aimed around the sides of the car and does not need to go over the roof. I would imagine more air over the roof will cause greater overall lift
IAn
Jim,
Indeed I thought so too, but to be honest, for the looks I like the twin nostril a bit better.
I think though that if you make that nostril perfectly fit to the radiator and guide most air what goes in, goes by the flow of such nostril, you can find some extra downforce.
because its forced to go that route / and so you get a bit more downforce as a plus.
on this picture no: 61, it looks like that car has a bit extra lip on top of that nostril?
Indeed I thought so too, but to be honest, for the looks I like the twin nostril a bit better.
I think though that if you make that nostril perfectly fit to the radiator and guide most air what goes in, goes by the flow of such nostril, you can find some extra downforce.
because its forced to go that route / and so you get a bit more downforce as a plus.
on this picture no: 61, it looks like that car has a bit extra lip on top of that nostril?
Again, based upon Ford moving the the single large vent with the MkIIB, the MkIV, and John Wyer continuing to use the single large vent with the Mirage and MIB, it seems that there is some significant benefit beyond better cooling. Also, the more pronounced front lip, and on the MkIV, there were small lips along the sides to direct the air over the top as opposed to to the sides.
Regardless, as I mentioned earlier, Bob Bondurant said he hit 212 on the Mulsanne in a MkI that had fairly curved canards like so:
http://www.carstyling.ru/resources/classic/1964_Ford_GT40_Mk1_03.jpg
Almost like a partial splitter. He said the car was quite stable at that speed. And, IIRC, a MkIIB and a P4 were the only cars to qualify with a faster time.
Ian
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Rene,
I was looking at the photo, car #61 has the "wide" rear clip with fairly large wheel well, curved opening extentions, I wonder what their purpose is?
It seems to me that they would add slightly to the drag.
What do you think if the side mirrors, I do not recall seing that type before? I bet they improve the view around the wide rear clip.
I was looking at the photo, car #61 has the "wide" rear clip with fairly large wheel well, curved opening extentions, I wonder what their purpose is?
It seems to me that they would add slightly to the drag.
What do you think if the side mirrors, I do not recall seing that type before? I bet they improve the view around the wide rear clip.
Hi all a southerngt has been certificated at 178.6 mph with a double vent bonnet with no issues.
regards mick.
regards mick.
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Ian K,
Thanks, I am fairly sure that you want the air to go over the top. All recent race car designs go out of their way to get the air over the top (remember the last of the McLaren Can Am cars with the big side fences).
Air going to the side would only increase the effective width of the car and increse drag.
Thanks, I am fairly sure that you want the air to go over the top. All recent race car designs go out of their way to get the air over the top (remember the last of the McLaren Can Am cars with the big side fences).
Air going to the side would only increase the effective width of the car and increse drag.
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Rene,
I went back and looked at the other photos.
The large photo of the "Gulf" car on the lawn shows quite a vertical "arch" to the front of the radiator nostril that I do not recall seeing on other cars. (the black cars on the last photo do not show this vertical arch) Does anybody know what chassis this is?
I went back and looked at the other photos.
The large photo of the "Gulf" car on the lawn shows quite a vertical "arch" to the front of the radiator nostril that I do not recall seeing on other cars. (the black cars on the last photo do not show this vertical arch) Does anybody know what chassis this is?
Jim,
car 61 has a very wide rear-clip, seen them before, they do ad some drag, but the way they are curved I think by doing so it pushes the car a bit down and keeps it a bit straight perhaps, also a bit because the little side flippers on the front-clip sends the air a bit up, but I guess it comes down again at those wide wheel arches?
at least that could explain some I guess.
when you look at some wind-tunnel test and they send such airstream you also see the air go up by the spoiler/bonnet and after that curve down again.
Those mirrors I did not seen before on a Gt40...indeed, i guess what you say to see over those wide wheel-arches.
that vertical arch, do you mean those on both sides of the big cooling inlet? those possible 2 brake-ducts?
that black and white picture on the other page show different brake-ducts, at least I think those are brake-ducts?
maybe some with more experience on those old cars can say more about those..
this car in restoration explains some too, I guess that wide arched gt40 also have those holes in the rear-end clip see picture 22 under that little spoiler.
guess otherwise a lot air gets build up in those wide fenders.
Ford GT40 Restoration - Chassis 1076
car 61 has a very wide rear-clip, seen them before, they do ad some drag, but the way they are curved I think by doing so it pushes the car a bit down and keeps it a bit straight perhaps, also a bit because the little side flippers on the front-clip sends the air a bit up, but I guess it comes down again at those wide wheel arches?
at least that could explain some I guess.
when you look at some wind-tunnel test and they send such airstream you also see the air go up by the spoiler/bonnet and after that curve down again.
Those mirrors I did not seen before on a Gt40...indeed, i guess what you say to see over those wide wheel-arches.
that vertical arch, do you mean those on both sides of the big cooling inlet? those possible 2 brake-ducts?
that black and white picture on the other page show different brake-ducts, at least I think those are brake-ducts?
maybe some with more experience on those old cars can say more about those..
this car in restoration explains some too, I guess that wide arched gt40 also have those holes in the rear-end clip see picture 22 under that little spoiler.
guess otherwise a lot air gets build up in those wide fenders.
Ford GT40 Restoration - Chassis 1076
Howard Jones
Supporter
Here's what I think I have learned about my car at over 125MPH.
A vertical spoiler attached to the rear duck bill of about 2 inchs tall will make quite a difference in high speed corners (+100MPH). 10-15% increase in grip? big guess here on number.
Sealing the nose of the car so that ALL of the air entering the front of the car via the radiator and brake ducts leaves the car out the top and over the windshield, or does not enter the nose at all. Seal the radiator exit to the nostril. Big difference in lift at front of car. I have taped off the other holes on the front and could feel the difference in +100 corners. Don't open the NACA ducts on the front of the car unless you direct them for some purpose and exaust it out of the car over the top or into the cockpit.
Lowering the nose at least 1/2 inch in ride height at the front in relation the the rear will make the most difference to turn in and front end grip at high speed (+100).
Lowering the car to 4 inchs at the rear and 3 1/2 at the front will improve grip at high speed. This will be lower than car be run on the street most of the time.
Little or no difference with canards at the front. This may be my canards???? If they do anything I think they help keep airflow out of the front wheel wells and thus out from under the car. Again if you want more front end grip, lower the nose.
There is very little airflow into the cabin with the side windows off.
There is a deep low pressure area behind the car in the area aft of my duckbill/spoiler. I think it might be possible that air enters the rear of the car through the openings on the back of the car below this area. I don't think they aid cooling the engine room much at speed. Must be of some cooling help at low speed. I am gussing, but I think most of the airflow out of the engine room is out the bottom. Close this up and expect higher engine temps.
A vertical spoiler attached to the rear duck bill of about 2 inchs tall will make quite a difference in high speed corners (+100MPH). 10-15% increase in grip? big guess here on number.
Sealing the nose of the car so that ALL of the air entering the front of the car via the radiator and brake ducts leaves the car out the top and over the windshield, or does not enter the nose at all. Seal the radiator exit to the nostril. Big difference in lift at front of car. I have taped off the other holes on the front and could feel the difference in +100 corners. Don't open the NACA ducts on the front of the car unless you direct them for some purpose and exaust it out of the car over the top or into the cockpit.
Lowering the nose at least 1/2 inch in ride height at the front in relation the the rear will make the most difference to turn in and front end grip at high speed (+100).
Lowering the car to 4 inchs at the rear and 3 1/2 at the front will improve grip at high speed. This will be lower than car be run on the street most of the time.
Little or no difference with canards at the front. This may be my canards???? If they do anything I think they help keep airflow out of the front wheel wells and thus out from under the car. Again if you want more front end grip, lower the nose.
There is very little airflow into the cabin with the side windows off.
There is a deep low pressure area behind the car in the area aft of my duckbill/spoiler. I think it might be possible that air enters the rear of the car through the openings on the back of the car below this area. I don't think they aid cooling the engine room much at speed. Must be of some cooling help at low speed. I am gussing, but I think most of the airflow out of the engine room is out the bottom. Close this up and expect higher engine temps.
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could make some sense about those canards Howard,...they do just a bit (that maybe explains why they can be made so thin?)
but by keeping wind from the front tires/wells and so less pressure which otherwise could push the car a bit up instead of down? helps just that bit together with the other little things to keep it more stable.
That front a bit lower then rear I also love, it helps, ofcorse not to much, otherwise its a bit to sharp steering
but by keeping wind from the front tires/wells and so less pressure which otherwise could push the car a bit up instead of down? helps just that bit together with the other little things to keep it more stable.
That front a bit lower then rear I also love, it helps, ofcorse not to much, otherwise its a bit to sharp steering
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Rene,
I'm talking about the front edge of the radiator exit on the top of the nose, you called it the "lip". On the Gulf colored car (on the lawn) this lip has a pronounced curve, much higher in the center, lower on the sides.
The two black cars do not have this arch, the #61 car this lip appears virtually flat. I just went out and looked at my SPF and this area is almost level.
Does anyone know the makes of these cars?
I'm talking about the front edge of the radiator exit on the top of the nose, you called it the "lip". On the Gulf colored car (on the lawn) this lip has a pronounced curve, much higher in the center, lower on the sides.
The two black cars do not have this arch, the #61 car this lip appears virtually flat. I just went out and looked at my SPF and this area is almost level.
Does anyone know the makes of these cars?
I recently did 170 mph in mine with no stability or lift issues whatsoever.
Probably the best car I've driven at that speed.
I had zero problems - zilch.
In fact the car settles more the faster it goes.
My car has slight downward rake, "flat" bottom with dropped floor, single nostril and is quite low - redundant comment for a gt40 I guess.
I have a front splitter for it and was about to manufacture a rear lip but none of it will be used now, unless I'm going for lap times. Unnecessary for top speed runs on my car.
After reading this forum for so long I had become slightly paranoid about lift and approached the run with caution, but the car made bollocks of all the opinion.
I will happily go a lot faster now and to hell with the Internet.
Oh yeah and at a recent flying mile event my car was faster than a modern GT44 and faster than or on par with every other exotic including Carrera GT, Murcilargo etc.
Tim.
Probably the best car I've driven at that speed.
I had zero problems - zilch.
In fact the car settles more the faster it goes.
My car has slight downward rake, "flat" bottom with dropped floor, single nostril and is quite low - redundant comment for a gt40 I guess.
I have a front splitter for it and was about to manufacture a rear lip but none of it will be used now, unless I'm going for lap times. Unnecessary for top speed runs on my car.
After reading this forum for so long I had become slightly paranoid about lift and approached the run with caution, but the car made bollocks of all the opinion.
I will happily go a lot faster now and to hell with the Internet.
Oh yeah and at a recent flying mile event my car was faster than a modern GT44 and faster than or on par with every other exotic including Carrera GT, Murcilargo etc.
Tim.
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Jim, ow...I misunderstood, and my English is euhm...not that good, but now I see what you meant,
indeed it is more curved that nostril and higher in the middle, did not notice it like that, don't know what for they did that.
@roaldin, you mean your car set up is a bit lower at the front? so the car acts a bit more like a spoiler as long as the road does not go up that much
that front splitter is it already on the car?
link to your car?
indeed it is more curved that nostril and higher in the middle, did not notice it like that, don't know what for they did that.
@roaldin, you mean your car set up is a bit lower at the front? so the car acts a bit more like a spoiler as long as the road does not go up that much
that front splitter is it already on the car?
link to your car?
Yes lower at the front by about half an inch.
No the splitter was not installed.
There are pic's of the car here somewhere. If you search for RF85 or RF085 you should find something.
Also search YouTube for GT40 Longford Revival. Speeds were recorded from a point near the start of the Armco (left side before tents) so not indicative of actual max speed.
There was a pronounced hump at the flying mile and my car had no issues at all, unlike most of the rest of the faster part of the field.
Tim.
No the splitter was not installed.
There are pic's of the car here somewhere. If you search for RF85 or RF085 you should find something.
Also search YouTube for GT40 Longford Revival. Speeds were recorded from a point near the start of the Armco (left side before tents) so not indicative of actual max speed.
There was a pronounced hump at the flying mile and my car had no issues at all, unlike most of the rest of the faster part of the field.
Tim.
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ok, seen the red car and the video, though I must say 240km/h is something different then say 300km/h
I've had a lot different cars and some get a bit light at already 180 or so, say Matra Murena or Renault Alpine V6 Turbo, or when going faster Porsche 911 (carrera 3.0 and 964 with 3.8RS) I wonder how your car would do between 300<>330km/h if it still feels good with only lowering the front and sealing the nostril then it sounds good to me.
although some GT40 replica's are different, you own a RF? with what other replica you can compare it by suspension and flow/underside.
My Hartge Z3 still feels good at 310km/h on the speedo (around 300 gps) but I secured my Kevlar hood with 2 extra clamps?, otherwise to much air under the hood which want it to pull of/high even with the vents in it. at those speeds all goes rapidly, this month we go again with some other fast cars into Germany and do some speed-limit-free Autobahn trip, ofcorse were the roads are free enough.
I've had a lot different cars and some get a bit light at already 180 or so, say Matra Murena or Renault Alpine V6 Turbo, or when going faster Porsche 911 (carrera 3.0 and 964 with 3.8RS) I wonder how your car would do between 300<>330km/h if it still feels good with only lowering the front and sealing the nostril then it sounds good to me.
although some GT40 replica's are different, you own a RF? with what other replica you can compare it by suspension and flow/underside.
My Hartge Z3 still feels good at 310km/h on the speedo (around 300 gps) but I secured my Kevlar hood with 2 extra clamps?, otherwise to much air under the hood which want it to pull of/high even with the vents in it.
at those speeds all goes rapidly, this month we go again with some other fast cars into Germany and do some speed-limit-free Autobahn trip, ofcorse were the roads are free enough.As I said, speed recording was done well before the finish line. Actual top speed attained was 268 kph. This was the first chance I've had to try the GT at any speed.
I also have some fast cars, like a lot of people here, and quite a lot of high speed experience. This car has impressed me and made me realize that internet opinion is worth exactly what I paid for it.
Fwiw, next Longford run (not a true flying mile in any way btw) I will be taking my track car and my GT-R along so maybe some real forced induction power will be more scary.
I've had more lift with old underpants than my scary flying wing GT40 produced.
I have no way of comparing my opinion of my car with another type of GT40 and I don't really care to. Maybe next time Sean from this forum will
take along his DRB and provide some feedback.
All I can say is that my RF inspired nothing in me but confidence.
Tim.
I also have some fast cars, like a lot of people here, and quite a lot of high speed experience. This car has impressed me and made me realize that internet opinion is worth exactly what I paid for it.
Fwiw, next Longford run (not a true flying mile in any way btw) I will be taking my track car and my GT-R along so maybe some real forced induction power will be more scary.
I've had more lift with old underpants than my scary flying wing GT40 produced.
I have no way of comparing my opinion of my car with another type of GT40 and I don't really care to. Maybe next time Sean from this forum will
take along his DRB and provide some feedback.
All I can say is that my RF inspired nothing in me but confidence.
Tim.
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