Interesting perspective...I agree...

[John Milmont]

But you can in an SLC :thumbsup:

...The problem outlined above is something trying to be too many things to too many people.

I really wish there was more exotic car brands out there so there was more variety. Don't get me wrong, I know there's a ton of small companies out there, but the price of their cars makes entry level Lambo's and Ferrari's look cheap.

That's why I'm so happy that RCR is around. They are showing that there is a market for a more focused car. Something that breaks the ferrari and lambo mold. There are people building SL-C's that are going to cost over a 100k easy. Those people could easily just go out and buy a Gallardo or 430, but they are not.

 

[John Ross]

That's why I'm so happy that RCR is around. They are showing that there is a market for a more focused car. Something that breaks the ferrari and lambo mold. There are people building SL-C's that are going to cost over a 100k easy. Those people could easily just go out and buy a Gallardo or 430, but they are not.

Amen. I may be being presumptuous here, and making the all too common mistake of taking my own situation and experiences and projecting them on others, but here's my take:

Some Ferrari/Lambo/Porsche owners are rich guys who just want a sexy status symbol, but most, to my eye, genuinely like having a comfortable, powerful car that is well thought out. However, those in this second group are still not "car guys."

A car guy is the one who, even before he got his driver's license, was figuring out how to get the most vehicular performance possible with the available dollars he had.

In my case it was putting a crate L88 with clutch-turbo behind it in a '65 Chevy II and going street racing for money in 1973, then using the winnings from that combo to buy a used 1969 Baldwin-Motion Corvette in 1974 for my daily driver.

When I got older and established a successful business, it wasn't the Ferraris etc. that lured me, but the Viper. With minimal mods (and none to the engine), on track days my Viper would run away and hide from the guys in the pizza-pan specials that cost four times as much.

RCR is for car guys. For car guys that like to go fast and make turns, there is no other automotive business I am aware of that will give you as much performance per dollar spent.

JR

 

[Roger]

I mostly agree. However, a driver skilled at threshold braking can still easily flat-spot ONE tire if the road surface is even the tiniest bit uneven, as I found out twice on roadrace courses in my '96 Viper GTS. I cannot condemn ABS in high-powered cars.

JR

I love "raw" cars, but, *if* you're going to get anywhere near the limits of your car on a public road, it would be (IMO) irresponsible not to have a few driver aids. I'd want at least ABS and traction control.

Turn off whatever you dislike for a purer track experience, but be better equipped for the unexpected on a road.

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Many current hyper cars should not be driven even close to their potential on open public roads as the performance envelope is just huge....

Take it to the track if you want to be that close to the limit....seriously...

 

[Doug]

Many current hyper cars should not be driven even close to their potential on open public roads as the performance envelope is just huge....

Take it to the track if you want to be that close to the limit....seriously...

sage advice from Fran.

Even today's minivans' performance can safely exceed the legal limits on public roads. That doesn't mean they should be exceeded, just because your car is capable. It would be devastating to hurt yourself or worse another motorist.

Doug

 

[Roger]

sage advice from Fran.

Even today's minivans' performance can safely exceed the legal limits on public roads. That doesn't mean they should be exceeded, just because your car is capable. It would be devastating to hurt yourself or worse another motorist.

Doug

Yes - you shouldn't be anywhere near the limits by choice. However, unexpected things happen, e.g. diesel, ice, panic braking, swerving due to others. Many tyres are compromised in some conditions e.g. DOT legal semi-slicks in the wet.

Last year I saw a Viper lock all 4 wheels and stop less than an inch short of hitting the car in front (he could have left more room and cadence braked, but it only takes road defects to mess it up, of which California has lots).

Just having a little too much power transmitted to the wheels can get you in a lot of trouble, and you can't always judge what too much is until it's too late. I can't react as fast as a decent traction control system.

 

[Brian]

Amen. I may be being presumptuous here, and making the all too common mistake of taking my own situation and experiences and projecting them on others, but here's my take:

:laugh: Ya think?

Some Ferrari/Lambo/Porsche owners are rich guys who just want a sexy status symbol, but most, to my eye, genuinely like having a comfortable, powerful car that is well thought out. However, those in this second group are still not "car guys."

JR

:stunned: Wow, the wife has diagnosed my car guy condition as terminal and now I'm symptom free! This is why we get second opinions.

The bad news: I am trapped in the gravitational well that is the SLC LeMans and :sad: I'm not a "rich guy".
The good news: I am not worthy. Therefore, I don't have to budget for another sports car that would approach the Ferrari's price bracket. Wait, is that good news? I need a second opinion!

:laugh: :laugh:
Brian

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Brian...you only live once...enough excuses ...pick up the phone

 

[Justin]

Fran, how about an update on the D Type??? Sorry, I'm really excited for that car. And I've decided to go with the M3 (S54) driveline, not Japanese.

Sorry guys for going off topic.

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Its coming along nicely.....:thumbsup:

 

[marc]

U only have 1 life to live. U decide. U can only have 1 wife at a time. but U can have as many cars as U can afford. Cant afford what U want then build it. Cant afford to build it, dream it, make it your goal. Then get Ur butt off the sofa, stop watching The View or whatever, and get a job, or two or three. Meet your goal.
Stop wasting Ur life.

 

[Mark Maybury]

U only have 1 life to live. U decide. U can only have 1 wife at a time. but U can have as many cars as U can afford. Cant afford what U want then build it. Cant afford to build it, dream it, make it your goal. Then get Ur butt off the sofa, stop watching The View or whatever, and get a job, or two or three. Meet your goal.
Stop wasting Ur life.

Did you ever sum it up...:thumbsup::thumbsup:
Now all I need to do is cut back to 1 job and start working in the shop on my cars.
Regards,
Mark

 

[James]

Or you can do what I did and spend a few years overseas and then it's your "reward" for spending 3 years in the desert...lol.

 

[Jim Glickenhaus]

Personally for a Sunday drive I love old basic cars. On a daily basis I perfer modern cars.

Overheating, fumes and cooking one's wife on a daily basis looses it's allure as you get older.

In terms of race cars modern technology IMO is pretty interesting. While P 4/5 CM has enough controls to keep you occupied without computers it wouldn't be drivable.

Computers change engine mapping so you can start it, run under yellow, run for qualifing, run for 24 hours, run in the rain, and extend range when you need another 15 mile lap.

Computers can also enable you to convert kenitic energy into stored electrical energy for boost when you need it.

Computers can balance brakes so you can go 24 hours on one set of pads.

TC and ABS enable you to drive much faster in race conditions.

Something gained and lost in living every day...

 

[Jack]

Very well stated Jim!

 

[Henry]

I track my mustang with no aids however, its a mustang. It doesn't matter how good of a driver you think you are there are factors that you can't control. In a car like a Lamborghini or any other supercar including the SLC I think it would be unwise to not have a good ABS or traction control. These can be turned of for the track and on for the regular cruise. I agree with being one with the mechanics of the car but the cars of today operate at the limit that you need these aids keep you alive at the speeds that achieved.

OH, ,nice to see someone local Brian.

 

[Les]

Everyone here is raising valuable issues.

One huge issue that no one has yet raised is: the government.

What many of us perceive as coming from drivers' laziness or vanity is actually coming from government requirement.

The U.S. government has put many regulations on automobiles:

• CAFE fuel economy standards
• "Passive restraints" i.e., air bags

• driver air bags
• front passenger air bags
• smart air bags
• side air bags
• rollover air bags

• bumpers and crash resistance standards

The U.S. government is mandating more regulations for the automobile:

• "Electronic Safety Control"
• Antilock brakes
• Lane departure warning systems
• Forward collision warning systems

The requirements were and are put on high-end, expensive vehicles first, like Mercedes-Benz, BMW and such, whose markups and governments financial interventions can enable these manufacturers to bear the burdens of formulating, researching testing and putting into production such interventions.

Marketing makes these government interventions seem desirable. As their website proclaims, the U.S. government wants everyone to believe "Safety sells. It's not a new concept. Buyers today spend countless hours researching before they ever step into a dealership. And safety is a priority. Manufacturers and dealers know that to stay competitive, the most advanced safety technology needs to be incorporated into new models. " Other car makers are required to incorporate the interventions later, in lower-cost vehicles, until all are regulated.

All these requirements add weight, complexity and reduce active safety (the ability of a car to get out of the way of a crash). MIT economist Knittel estimates, putting all these together on regular production street vehicles has "increased their weight by 26% between 1980-2006."

Many of us, even on an unconscious level, do not want the U.S. government intruding on our vehicles. To get away from these unwanted and expensive government interventions, many drivers have switched from passenger cars to other kinds of vehicles: SUV's and pickup trucks. They are not regulated so heavily (yet).

Others of us make our own cars, like the RCR Superlight SL-C! We like the SL-C's active safety. We can make our cars safe as we decide, not a bureaucracy somewhere.

And compare the costs of a regulated car, such as a Ferrari, top-of-the-line Mercedes-Benz AMG, BMW M-type, or Lamborghini, with the cost of a Superlight SL-C.

Bassanio et Portia

Here are my sources:

Safety Technology | Safercar.gov | National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)
http://www.tgdaily.com/sustainability-features/60648-yes-mit-economists-can-be-wrong-about-cars
http://cei.org/news-letters-cei-planet/only-smart-air-bag-mandate-no-mandate-all
Side Impact Airbags Mandate - Air Bags required on all new cars
Bumper Questions and Answers
Backup Cameras Likely Mandated for 2014 - KickingTires
Electronic Stability Control (ESC) | National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)

P. S. Any errors in this post are mine. If I am in error, please tell me and I will gladly change it! B et P

 

[Howard Jones]

Some people like to ski the groomed runs and others can't wait to jump off a cliff into a 50 degree chute. I personally will never go near a parachute while some people do it every weekend and even get married in mid air.

But the government, if not restricted, will have everybody strapped into their sofa with a airbag in the coffee (decaf) table watching Oprah 24 hours a day.

In the end I think I agree with Jim. I do like a nice modern performance sedan for a 6 hour trip down to LA but give me something with POWER! that SLIDS BABY!! for a Sunday morning canyon run.

It's all about choices, and it's our job as citizens to keep them.

 

[Jack]

It's all about choices, and it's our job as citizens to keep them.[/QUOTE]

100% right-on Howard!