Is the right to bear arms outdated.
- Thread starter Pete
- Start date
Yes, guns, for the most part, are designed to kill. But that doesn't make them bad or evil. Guns like everything else not living, don't have a conscience.
Jim, do you believe that people are fundamentally good by nature?
Jim, do you believe that people are fundamentally good by nature?
But as shown by McVeigh,... So does fertilizer and fuel.
Point is evil people do evil things.
Jeffery Dahmer's first victim was bludgeoned with a dumbell. He killed others by drilling holes in their heads. Evil does evil.
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Yes I do, but something about guns seems to change this.
A good example of this is Japan, a country with virtually no guns, they have very little violence and very little murder, as Keith says they are a very respectful people.
But back in the early 1940's, their government gave virtually every male a gun, overnight they they became vicious, bloodthirsty killers, committing incredable crimes against humanity.
Then, right after the war the guns were removed and almost immediately they became calm, gentle, respectful, people with little violence and very little murder. This has continued for the last 70 years.
What changed?..........................they took away the guns!
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Yeah.. and Adolf Hitler was a fundamentally good person too? Let's blame the gas chambers for his fundamentally good decisions regarding anyone who was from a different ethnic or religious background.
Evil does evil.
And all of the looters during the Rodney King trial, causing almost a billion dollars in damages. they were fundamentally good too? The truck driver, Reginald Denny (who had nothing to do with the trial), was pulled from his truck and beaten almost to death by fundamentally good people?
If I recall correctly, 50+ died during those riots with about a dozen being killed by police. So that means about 40 were killed by fundamentally good rioters and looters.
Evil does evil.
And all of the looters during the Rodney King trial, causing almost a billion dollars in damages. they were fundamentally good too? The truck driver, Reginald Denny (who had nothing to do with the trial), was pulled from his truck and beaten almost to death by fundamentally good people?
If I recall correctly, 50+ died during those riots with about a dozen being killed by police. So that means about 40 were killed by fundamentally good rioters and looters.
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
So thats your plan, deflect the problem and change the subject with............
Fertilizer
Trucks
Diesel
Cars
Curbs
Alcohol
Riots
You can add in Jay walking and peanut butter.........................
But guns are the discussion and the problem!
You say guns make us safer................
Then tell us why does Japan have virtually the lowest gun murder rate and we have virtually the highest.
Fertilizer
Trucks
Diesel
Cars
Curbs
Alcohol
Riots
You can add in Jay walking and peanut butter.........................
But guns are the discussion and the problem!
You say guns make us safer................
Then tell us why does Japan have virtually the lowest gun murder rate and we have virtually the highest.
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Jim, I don't know how you can think that after this tragedy.
But I'm glad Japan was brought up. One major difference between us and Japan (other than a million other things) is that the vast majority of Japanese are very conservative by our standards. That's why they are so polite, humble, respectful and orderly. Japanese people believe in shame, not blame. These are things conservatives strive for. Believe it or not, America was similar to this at one point. I don't know if we can ever go back...
For your second statement, I think you are talking about their soldiers and it started a lot earlier than the 1940's. They invaded Manchuria in 1931... Also, Asian armies in general have always been brutal.
If you look back, the civilians of Japan have always been peaceful and humble. Their historic governments, not so much.
I'm with Jim.
Jim, you are missing my point. People acting in evil ways is why people died. You are blaming the guns, i was showing that blaming inanimate objects for the decisions of people is faulty logic. Because if you really believe that the inanimate objects (guns) are the cause, then you would have to accept the other examples that I provided. In addition, you would also admit that a person can do whatever atrocious acts and yet have something else to blame. Therefore no criminal is actually responsible for his or her actions.
For example, an evil person breaks into your house using a crowbar and (God forbid) rapes your wife while holding a knife to her neck and robs you of a Rolex. Are you going to blame the Rolex he saw you wearing and was tempted by it??? Are you going to blame your wife for being attractive? Are you going to blame the crowbar manufactures? Are you going to blame the knife maker? And are you going to blame yourself for wearing the Rolex which tempted the evil person to follow you home. I would bet not. You would blame the criminal, right?
Now as for Japan, they have/had a different culture. For how many centuries, they held the belief that if they acted in a way that brought shame to their families, they were expected to take their own life. In other words, they had to take responsibilities for their actions. In our country, there's less ans less accountability... From corrupt politicians on down to us. That's the problem, the breakdown of society, morals, responsibilities and consequences.
For example, an evil person breaks into your house using a crowbar and (God forbid) rapes your wife while holding a knife to her neck and robs you of a Rolex. Are you going to blame the Rolex he saw you wearing and was tempted by it??? Are you going to blame your wife for being attractive? Are you going to blame the crowbar manufactures? Are you going to blame the knife maker? And are you going to blame yourself for wearing the Rolex which tempted the evil person to follow you home. I would bet not. You would blame the criminal, right?
Now as for Japan, they have/had a different culture. For how many centuries, they held the belief that if they acted in a way that brought shame to their families, they were expected to take their own life. In other words, they had to take responsibilities for their actions. In our country, there's less ans less accountability... From corrupt politicians on down to us. That's the problem, the breakdown of society, morals, responsibilities and consequences.
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Danimal,
Of course people are responsible for the crimes, but I am fully against making it much, much easier to kill large groups.
This most recent school shooting (there will be many many more) came against a school that was locked down. Visitors needed to be buzzed through a locked door, they took precautions. This little twerp used his guns to shoot out the locks on the door, without that those childeren would be alive today.
Now this sort of thing has happened in Japan, even with their peaceful culture:
In 2004, 37-year-old former janitor Mamoru Takuma entered the school armed with a kitchen knife and began stabbing numerous school children and teachers. He killed eight children, mostly between the ages of seven and eight, and seriously wounded thirteen other children and two teachers.[2]
This was an equally vicious attack, with a similar number of victims, but he only had a knife, the death toll was 1/3rd of our most recent attrocity.
What was the differance?.............He did not have a gun!
Of course people are responsible for the crimes, but I am fully against making it much, much easier to kill large groups.
This most recent school shooting (there will be many many more) came against a school that was locked down. Visitors needed to be buzzed through a locked door, they took precautions. This little twerp used his guns to shoot out the locks on the door, without that those childeren would be alive today.
Now this sort of thing has happened in Japan, even with their peaceful culture:
In 2004, 37-year-old former janitor Mamoru Takuma entered the school armed with a kitchen knife and began stabbing numerous school children and teachers. He killed eight children, mostly between the ages of seven and eight, and seriously wounded thirteen other children and two teachers.[2]
This was an equally vicious attack, with a similar number of victims, but he only had a knife, the death toll was 1/3rd of our most recent attrocity.
What was the differance?.............He did not have a gun!
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And in Baltimore this week, in a locked school, a woman gained entry with a birthday cake.... She had no business in the school as no relatives attended it. She attacked an employee with a knife.
Evil people will do evil things.
I am not downplaying the tragedy, I am only pointing out that evil is evil.
The media's constant coverage only makes this worse. Sick, evil people see how much attention it draws and how everything else is blamed for the actions of the culprit. Then in their (either sick/twisted/evil) minds then romanticize the events and yearn for the attention.
Why do we know the names of Tim McVeigh, but not the victims? Why do we know there's a town called Colombine and Don't know the victims' names? Why are the names like "snooki" and "jwoww" known and held in high esteem? Why are the contestants on shows like "American Idol" known and voted for more than many elected officials? Why is every aspect of an actors/actress personal life reported on and aired/publicized? It is pathetic how morality has degenerated to the current lows and here's no letting up.
Stop the sensationalism, make people accountable, help people with mental illness and things will start to improve.
But blaming others or something other than the criminal only reinforces the breakdown of society.
Evil people will do evil things.
I am not downplaying the tragedy, I am only pointing out that evil is evil.
The media's constant coverage only makes this worse. Sick, evil people see how much attention it draws and how everything else is blamed for the actions of the culprit. Then in their (either sick/twisted/evil) minds then romanticize the events and yearn for the attention.
Why do we know the names of Tim McVeigh, but not the victims? Why do we know there's a town called Colombine and Don't know the victims' names? Why are the names like "snooki" and "jwoww" known and held in high esteem? Why are the contestants on shows like "American Idol" known and voted for more than many elected officials? Why is every aspect of an actors/actress personal life reported on and aired/publicized? It is pathetic how morality has degenerated to the current lows and here's no letting up.
Stop the sensationalism, make people accountable, help people with mental illness and things will start to improve.
But blaming others or something other than the criminal only reinforces the breakdown of society.
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Tom,
In the 2001 Japanese school attack, a man with a knife attacked childeren, he injured 29 students and teachers, with eight deaths, the attack was stopped by two teachers who subdued him with their hands!
In China 2010, a man attacked a school with a knife, he stabed and slashed 22 childeren, all survived!
In these two vicious, school knife attacks, 51 people were attacked and only eight died.
In our most recent school attack, but this time using GUNS, there 28 childered and teachers attacked and 26 killed.
What was the differance: In China and Japan, they don't have easy access to guns!
Knives killed 8 out of 51
Guns killed 26 out of 28.
Tom, please answer this question, when a school near you is attacked would you prefer that attack to be with knives or guns?
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Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Steve
If you are angry, I mean MURDER little childeren angry..................
Here in the US,
How hard is it to find a gun?
How hard is it to fine a bomb?
*******************
What ifs won't change what happened, it was guns!
Saying he could have used a knife or a bomb, does not change what happened, it was a gun. Just like virtually all this type of school mass murders in the US, if guns are available they use guns!
Stop trying to deflect the problem, the problem is guns!
If you are angry, I mean MURDER little childeren angry..................
Here in the US,
How hard is it to find a gun?
How hard is it to fine a bomb?
*******************
What ifs won't change what happened, it was guns!
Saying he could have used a knife or a bomb, does not change what happened, it was a gun. Just like virtually all this type of school mass murders in the US, if guns are available they use guns!
Stop trying to deflect the problem, the problem is guns!
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Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
For once you have said something that makes sense. Evil people in China and Japan use knives and kill only small mumbers.
8 out of 51, with knives
26 out of 28, with guns
Its a simple as that!
